my first live coral/cycling

[kimbaco6]

I have a new 29 gallon biocube tank and my goal is to do a reef tank. It has been running now for a few weeks. I had some initial problems because I added fish too quickly and lost some. I am using live rock, live substrate and nutri-seawater. I actually started off with tap water that I treated with drops, and I think that is why I got off to a rocky start. Now am doing water changes frequently with only the seawater for now, and intend to get an RO unit as well.

So my question is this. How do I know when my tank is truly cycled? And when should I be thinking about adding my first live coral? It is not entirely clear to me where my tank is in the cycling process. I tested regularly and never saw a spike in amonia or anything else. My readings are still consistently at zero for everything. I am reading that it is possible that the spike was very subtle and wasn't detected. Should I consider my tank cycled now? There are only 2 small fish in there, a chromis and a tiny fan tail (not sure exactly). I also have a few hermits crabs, and an emerald crab.

Thanks.
My tanks - 29 gallon biocube, 15 gallon biocube QT

 

[KathyC]

A tank is cycled when ammonina, nitrite have dropped down to zero (after they initially rise) and nitates are extremely low.
No fish should be added for about the first 6 weeks or so.
A clean up crew would be added after the cycle is over.
As you mention - you have definitely jumped the gun here...

Do you have a pic of the tank that you can post - that will give us a lot of info without having to ask you a ton of questions

How much live rock did you start off with?
Any parameters you can provide will be helpful.

 

[kimbaco6]

Well, I am getting a lot of different opinions about how long a tank should cycle before adding fish. From what I am reading, and how my tank is testing, it is now cycled, right? Just want to be sure before adding anything. My PH is testing a little low right now at 7.8 so I am doing frequent water changes trying to get that back up. Won't do anything for sure until all tests are reading normal for at least a couple of weeks.

What my question is really about is when is the appropriate time to add live coral? Let's assume that my tank gets fully cycled and is ready to go. Do I add coral first? Fish first? Does it matter as long as I do it slowly with one thing every couple of weeks or longer?

My tank has about 10 pounds of live rock, and all the substrate is live as well. From what I read before setting up my tank that could be the reason why it cycled so quickly. I just want my tank to be as healthy as possible so everything in it will thrive. Just trying to take my time here and learn as much as I can.

 

[kimbaco6]

Oh, and sorry, no pic, but I'll work on that.

 

[basiab]

You will get a lot of conflicting advice so pay attention to Kathy.
Besides that, read and then read some more.

 

[Dre]

[PDF OVERLAY][/PDF OVERLAY]I just want my tank to be as healthy as possible so everything in it will thrive. Just trying to take my time here and learn as much as I can.[PDF OVERLAY][/PDF OVERLAY]

If that's your goal you should listen to kathy and wait.The tank need to build up benefical bacteria, this takes time.Leave the tank alone and stop making unnecessary water changes.pH is usually low 7... in the morning and gradually rise to 8... throughout the day or when the lights come on.

 

[kimbaco6]

Ok, I guess I haven't made my question clear here.

Yes, I am waiting, not adding anything at all now.

The question is WHEN is it ok to add live coral and fish, and how do I know that time has arrived?

Glad to hear that 7.8 Ph isn't a problem, because I was getting nervous. It's been that low for weeks now.

 

[kimbaco6]

Oh, and they aren't unnecessary water changes. I did my first water change yesterday in the 3 weeks my tank has been running, and only about 10%. I actually started off with tap water (which I don't use anymore) so I do want to get that diluted as time goes on.

What about salinity? My salinity has also been on the low end of the safe scale and I have been nervous about adding more salt. I just mixed a bucket of the seawater with a little bit of added salt and was going to try to add some of that tomorrow to try to increase the salinity. Is this the standard procedure for this, or any other suggestions?

 

[Dre]

I tested regularly and never saw a spike in amonia or anything else. My readings are still consistently at zero for everything.

If everything is at Zero, i'm assuming ammonia and nitrates you are making unnecessary water changes.What are you trying to achieve?pH should be at 8.1-8.4 at the end of the day cycle if not, you need to add a pH
buffer .On to the first part of your question,Kathy already told you, not because everything is zero the tank need time to build up benefical bacteria.

 

[Dre]

[PDF OVERLAY][/PDF OVERLAY]My salinity has also been on the low end of the safe scale and I have been nervous about adding more salt. I just mixed a bucket of the seawater with a little bit of added salt and was going to try to add some of that tomorrow to try to increase the salinity. Is this the standard procedure for this, or any other suggestions?[PDF OVERLAY][/PDF OVERLAY]

This is another reason why you need to wait, be patient and read while the tank do it's thing.That is your salinity reading ?

 

[Dre]

[PDF OVERLAY][/PDF OVERLAY]No fish should be added for about the first 6 weeks or so.[PDF OVERLAY][/PDF OVERLAY]

If you're looking for a straight forward answer ,your question is not an easy one, it depends on the kind of animal .Research fish and corals before buying, some can be very trouble some.

 

[kimbaco6]

So even with my levels ok I still need to wait longer for beneficial bacteria to grow? I thought that the live rock and substrate was providing much of the beneficial bacteria, and read that you only need to wait that long if you started without those aids. I suppose it can't hurt, only help to do so regardless.

What I am really asking though is not when is my tank cycled, but rather WHEN do you add the coral versus the fish? Let's assume I am at week 7 or 8 and all levels look good. Coral first? Fish first? Does it matter? I do have 2 small fish in here already with some cleaners.

Salinity/specific gravity reading on the hydrometer is 30/1.022.
I have two plastic hydrometers. One says this is the middle of the safe zone. Another says this is at the bottom. Do I still need to increase salinity?

I think I need a refractometer because these don't seem reliable to me....

 

[KathyC]

Usually a clean up crew is added first - most folks tend to add fish second (only 1 or 2!!) and then alternate with corals or more fish. Corals don't much impact the bioload on the tank. Fish do!

You really do not want to add either until the tank is stable enough to support your critters - meaning your parameters are spot-on - ALL of them..without having to continually make adjustments - for at least a few weeks . Ammomia, nitrite, nitrate, Calcium, alkalinity, magnesium, SG, temp and pH (technically it takes at least a year - I prefer more than that- to call a tank established and fully stable)
The amount of rock in the tank also acts as a biofilter - so 10 pounds really isn't enough (rule of thumb is 1.5 pounds per gallon of water).

'Live sand' - while sold as such is woefully low in what you really want in the sandbed. Usually we don't even suggest spend the money on it but get a cup or 2 of sand from an 'established' tank that has been running for a while.

Do get a refractometer - so much easier and your readings are always accurate

NEVER add salt to a tank unless it is premixed in the water.
Here is a calculator thats tells you exactly how to raise your salinity:
http://saltyzoo.com/SaltyCalcs/SalinityAdjust.php

Hope that helps!

 

[kimbaco6]

Yes, that's very helpful. Will get more live rock.

Just to explain why I am asking these questions, my intention is to try to plan out exactly what (and how many) fish and corals I want in my tank. Then I can take the time while it finishes cycling to thoroughly research each one so that when the time comes I am ready for it. I also may need to order some things if my local stores don't have them.

So my only intention here is to research and plan so that I can be successful. I got off to a rough start by getting bad advice from two different stores (and a number of books) and put fish in too soon. Most of them died, and I frankly wanted to give up right then and there. Now am definitely getting many different opinions before moving forward.

Thanks again for constructive help!

 

[jdnumis]

Listen to Kathy I've got a lot of advice cfrom her annd she is on point. do yourself a favor n take your time. 6 week cycle then water change then test and if all good add cuc. Wait a couple of weeks then test then slowly add fish. Check calcium levels to make sure you are at 400-500 then slowly add coral. Sps need more light then softies and lps.

Hope that helps

-James

 

[kimbaco6]

Yep, will do.

BTW I agree with your work/life philosophy. More people should jump on board, the world would be a much happier place!

 

[CJM1224]

yes, it is...if you want to raise salinity, do it through water changes. the makeup salinity should be slightly higher than your tank. this will gradually raise salinity.

also, mushrooms are very hardy...you can try adding them.

after 4-6 weeks of the tank cycling, you should be good to go.

slow and steady wins the race!

Oh, and they aren't unnecessary water changes. I did my first water change yesterday in the 3 weeks my tank has been running, and only about 10%. I actually started off with tap water (which I don't use anymore) so I do want to get that diluted as time goes on.

What about salinity? My salinity has also been on the low end of the safe scale and I have been nervous about adding more salt. I just mixed a bucket of the seawater with a little bit of added salt and was going to try to add some of that tomorrow to try to increase the salinity. Is this the standard procedure for this, or any other suggestions?

 

[kimbaco6]

Ok, I think I get it now. No water changes during cycling (because you are dumping out all the beneficial bacteria that you are trying to create) unless salinity is too low. Is 30 too low? Or ok for now don't worry about it? Keep in mind there are 2 fish in there already and some cleaners.

 

[KathyC]

Ok, I think I get it now. No water changes during cycling (because you are dumping out all the beneficial bacteria that you are trying to create) unless salinity is too low. Is 30 too low? Or ok for now don't worry about it? Keep in mind there are 2 fish in there already and some cleaners.

Salinity should be 1.024-1.025. Yours is too high.
Since you already have fish in there you DO need to watch the levels (especially ammonia) and DO water changes so you don't kill the fish, it will cause your cycle to last longer.

The best option would be to return the fish to where you purchased them and properly cycle the tank without them.

 

[kimbaco6]

Ah, yes, I did consider taking the fish back. Might consider that again.
Should I keep the cleaners in there? (4 hermit crabs and 1 emerald crab)

Ok so this crappy hydrometer reads about 29 for salinity and about 1.021/1.022 for specific gravity. So it's a touch low, correct? Shall I do a small water change and raise it a bit?