Beginner 40g breeder! Need help

[dazzanax]

Hello, the name is Dan.
I am soon to purchase a 40 breeder, a powerhead, an the tank stand, canopy lid. I want to make a reef tank, not just a fish tank. I'm into all types of corals, love crustaceans, and want to put a few fish inside also.

I was wondering when I should put the live rock in my tank, and how much I should use. I keep getting different estmates of live rock amounts, and figured you guys woud know the correct amount! Is there ane xact formula, or should I just put what I like?

Also, is this tank big enough to put in any tangs? How many fish is the capacity of this tank?

Thanks all!

 

[ryangrieder]

First off, welcome to MR!

For rock, depends. If its live or like macro rock. Either was put it in during the cycle process is fine. It will help the cycle as well. For amount, that's your personal choice. MOre the better, but 1.5 per gallon is max I would say and 25 pounds minimum I would use. I have a 46g with only 23 pounds, but its my choice. I don't depend on my rock for filtration purposes. But in the end 25-50 pounds is plenty for a 40 breeder.

And sorry, no tangs.
What's your Fish ideas and we will help you deside...

 

[UnknownWaters]

Tangs only in 75 gallons or more IMO others say 90 gallons

 

[masterswimmer]

All good info from Ryan. No need for me to put my two cents in. I'd just clutter your thread

Welcome to MR and best of luck with your new reef.
Russ

 

[dazzanax]

First off, welcome to MR!

For rock, depends. If its live or like macro rock. Either was put it in during the cycle process is fine. It will help the cycle as well. For amount, that's your personal choice. MOre the better, but 1.5 per gallon is max I would say and 25 pounds minimum I would use. I have a 46g with only 23 pounds, but its my choice. I don't depend on my rock for filtration purposes. But in the end 25-50 pounds is plenty for a 40 breeder.

And sorry, no tangs.
What's your Fish ideas and we will help you deside...

Thanks for your answer and advice! Well, that's depressing about the yellow tangs...love them. Can I do any species of tank at all, like a smaller one?...I'm realllllly picky about the fish, (not into damsels and Chromis) but heres the others that I really like, let me know what you think:

-Powder Blue Tang
-Clownfish (False Percula)
-Long-Nosed Filefin
-Cowfish
-Regal Angelfish
-Threadfin Butterflyfish
-Long-Nosed Butterflyfish (One of my favorites)
-Copper-Band Butterflyfish
-Bird Wrasse (Also a favorite of mine)
-Mandarin Fish
-Foxface
-Eels?
-Starfish, crabs, shrimp, clams

It's importantto keep in mind that since I already have freshwater tanks, I am doing this mainly for the inverts, and the corals, BUT I want to put just 2-4 fish in, for some color. Since I'm used to fresh water fish, I really want some bright fish. I figured if I only do 2-4, I can get away with slightly bigger ones.

Also, do they make 50- or 55 breeders?

 

[MSunkin23]

Hey Dan!

This is the best way to get info. 40breeder is a great size. I would start with 30-40lbs of live rock + Saltwater + Sand + Powerheads and get the cycle going. After a week or two you can throw in your light (T5 I am assuming) and a clean up crew (CUC) if the parameters start to equilibrate.

 

[MSunkin23]

Also, check out the Marketplace for tanks, equipment and coral frags. I think I saw a 30g with stand on there this morning for $60.

 

[Arati]

you have to consider the room each fish needs to be happy, and how much they eat/poo

no the tank is to small -Powder Blue Tang
yes -Clownfish (False Percula)
not sure what fish this is-Long-Nosed Filefin
although cool they release toxins if they die so yes with caution-Cowfish
no way to big and it can eat some polyps-Regal Angelfish
again research these butterflys-Threadfin Butterflyfish
not realy nmy area but some eat corals-Long-Nosed Butterflyfish (One of my favorites)
verry hard to keep alive I wouldnt keep a CB in a 40-Copper-Band Butterflyfish
no, not reef safe and way to big-Bird Wrasse (Also a favorite of mine)
not until after 1 year-Mandarin Fish
prolly border line , but id put a small one in and see how it goes-Foxface
threse need good cover on the tank, again not my thing . with caution-Eels?
yes -Starfish, crabs, shrimp, clams

when looking at fish be sure to check if it is reef safe.

 

[ryangrieder]

Powder Blue Tang - noooooooooo
-Clownfish (False Percula) - perfect
-Long-Nosed Filefin - no
-Cowfish - no
-Regal Angelfish - no
-Threadfin Butterflyfish -no
-Long-Nosed Butterflyfish (One of my favorites) - no
-Copper-Band Butterflyfish - no
-Bird Wrasse (Also a favorite of mine) - no
-Mandarin Fish - maybe after a year
-Foxface - ehhhhh
-Eels? - maybe a snowflake, but id say no
-Starfish, crabs, shrimp, clams - depends.
*
sorry buddy but your list is not looking to good. all those fish are no good pretty much for your tank.*way to big or not hardy or not reef safe. here is a simple list i'll make for you. here are a few reef safe simple fish that i just looked through my book and picked out...
*
false purcula
pink skunk clown
orange skunk clown
seabae clown
true purcula
caribbean pygmy angel
coral beauty
bi color angel
lemonpeel angel
eibli angel
other dwarf angels. only ONE though...
chalk basslet
harliquin basslet
royal gramma
bi color blenny
algae blenny
scooter blenny
pj cardinal
beau gregory damsel
blue reef chromis
royal dotty back
purple pseudochromis
diadema psuedochromis
purple back psuedochromis
yellow watchman goby
clown goby
bullet goby
pink spot luther goby
dusky jaw fish
red fire fish
purple firefish
engineer goby
black foot orange dot goby
pink bar goby
blue gudgeon goby
sisscortail goby
*
golden head sleeper goby
rainford goby
zebra goby
six line wrasse
carpenders fairy wrasse
exquisite wrasse
lubbocks fairy wrasse
McCoskers Fairy Wrasse
solar fairy wrasse
checkerboard wrasse
cherryhead fairy wrasse


*

 

[UnknownWaters]

i agree with ya Ryan on all but the mandarin. they need a ton of pods and rock to graze on.

 

[dazzanax]

Powder Blue Tang - noooooooooo
-Clownfish (False Percula) - perfect
-Long-Nosed Filefin - no
-Cowfish - no
-Regal Angelfish - no
-Threadfin Butterflyfish -no
-Long-Nosed Butterflyfish (One of my favorites) - no
-Copper-Band Butterflyfish - no
-Bird Wrasse (Also a favorite of mine) - no
-Mandarin Fish - maybe after a year
-Foxface - ehhhhh
-Eels? - maybe a snowflake, but id say no
-Starfish, crabs, shrimp, clams - depends.
*
sorry buddy but your list is not looking to good. all those fish are no good pretty much for your tank.*way to big or not hardy or not reef safe. here is a simple list i'll make for you. here are a few reef safe simple fish that i just looked through my book and picked out...
*
false purcula
pink skunk clown
orange skunk clown
seabae clown
true purcula
caribbean pygmy angel
coral beauty
bi color angel
lemonpeel angel
eibli angel
other dwarf angels. only ONE though...
chalk basslet
harliquin basslet
royal gramma
bi color blenny
algae blenny
scooter blenny
pj cardinal
beau gregory damsel
blue reef chromis
royal dotty back
purple pseudochromis
diadema psuedochromis
purple back psuedochromis
yellow watchman goby
clown goby
bullet goby
pink spot luther goby
dusky jaw fish
red fire fish
purple firefish
engineer goby
black foot orange dot goby
pink bar goby
blue gudgeon goby
sisscortail goby
*
golden head sleeper goby
rainford goby
zebra goby
six line wrasse
carpenders fairy wrasse
exquisite wrasse
lubbocks fairy wrasse
McCoskers Fairy Wrasse
solar fairy wrasse
checkerboard wrasse
cherryhead fairy wrasse


*

Thanks for your help. problem with your list is, I'm not into chromies, or damsels.

 

[skene]

most of the fish that you want are not suited for the size tank that you would be setting up.
You have to keep in mind that what you would like to do is minimize the amount of fighting with space that is limited to what you are trying to accomplish.
Get fish that are realistic and do not grow larger than what you want to accommodate.

 

[ryangrieder]

Thanks for your help. problem with your list is, I'm not into chromies, or damsels.

I named 46 fish...only 2 were damsels and chromis.

 

[MSunkin23]

I am a huge fan of Gobies and Clowns. Firefish is a cool addition as well. I bet you can get a mandarin in there.

 

[ryangrieder]

No, mandarin has to wait IMO. Do not impulse buy something like that, when there is a high chance it will die. I personally have a mandarin going on 4 years old. It took a lot of personal time with him. Hand feeding, many times a day. I waited for my tank to be a year and a half old, then I got one. If you get one too early, it may live for awhile in your tank, but eventually get lethargic and slowly die...

 

[MSunkin23]

Yea, perhaps the 40g is pushing it for a mandarin. More like a pipe dream.

I would stick to other gobies, and clownfish if I were you. Check out the firefish.

 

[aznt1217]

You can go with the ORA Mandarin and train them on frozen food. But a wild caught one I would stray away from.

I suggest having at max like 12 fish in there (within reason). I think you can get away with dime sized tang and keep him/her for a few years then rehome it.

I usually push the bar and people are usually against my fish keeping =D. What psycho puts 32 fish in a 54 gallon corner and gets away with it! My fish were pretty happy -- no fights, all swimming calmly. You just need to ensure you have stronger than normal water flow and a very good filtration system.

 

[dazzanax]

Powder Blue Tang - noooooooooo
-Clownfish (False Percula) - perfect
-Long-Nosed Filefin - no
-Cowfish - no
-Regal Angelfish - no
-Threadfin Butterflyfish -no
-Long-Nosed Butterflyfish (One of my favorites) - no
-Copper-Band Butterflyfish - no
-Bird Wrasse (Also a favorite of mine) - no
-Mandarin Fish - maybe after a year
-Foxface - ehhhhh
-Eels? - maybe a snowflake, but id say no
-Starfish, crabs, shrimp, clams - depends.
*
sorry buddy but your list is not looking to good. all those fish are no good pretty much for your tank.*way to big or not hardy or not reef safe. here is a simple list i'll make for you. here are a few reef safe simple fish that i just looked through my book and picked out...
*
false purcula
pink skunk clown
orange skunk clown
seabae clown
true purcula
caribbean pygmy angel
coral beauty
bi color angel
lemonpeel angel
eibli angel
other dwarf angels. only ONE though...
chalk basslet
harliquin basslet
royal gramma
bi color blenny
algae blenny
scooter blenny
pj cardinal
beau gregory damsel
blue reef chromis
royal dotty back
purple pseudochromis
diadema psuedochromis
purple back psuedochromis
yellow watchman goby
clown goby
bullet goby
pink spot luther goby
dusky jaw fish
red fire fish
purple firefish
engineer goby
black foot orange dot goby
pink bar goby
blue gudgeon goby
sisscortail goby
*
golden head sleeper goby
rainford goby
zebra goby
six line wrasse
carpenders fairy wrasse
exquisite wrasse
lubbocks fairy wrasse
McCoskers Fairy Wrasse
solar fairy wrasse
checkerboard wrasse
cherryhead fairy wrasse


*

What do you think of my list, if I upgraded to a 65 gallon? How would that changewhat I can get?

 

[skene]

from a 40 to a 65... you are really only talking height now. not much has changed.

 

[dazzanax]

from a 40 to a 65... you are really only talking height now. not much has changed.

Ya, but it's 25 more gallons of water for the fish to roam, also, it keeps the width that I want for the coral...