Jejton's Tank Thread

[jejton]

So after surviving my first semester at med school, I decided its time to reward myself and bought a new tank. I tried my hand at SW with a desktop 12 gallon cube at work for a few months until I started school and have wanted a full sized tank for quite a while now. I picked it up from Meschaefer ( great meeting you and thanks for the help ) and it is currently in the garage until the stand gets delivered in a few days ( couldnt fit it in my car ). Its an AGA 65 rr tank with custom built hood, stand and 20 gallong acrylic sump and 5 gallon fw reservoir. The hood has 2 175 watt MH and one 65W PC fixtures, and a fan. The stand, sump and hood were built by Meschaefer. I will get pics up as soon as its all together in the basement ( but for impateint ones you can see it at his sell thread http://www.manhattanreefs.com/forum/sale-trade/31078-65g-rr-hood-stand-sump-mh-pc.html ).

I plan on stocking the tank with mostly softies and LPS. Eventually, just because the lighting is there, I might try an easier SPS or two but nothing in mind right now. As for fish, I spent a lot of time thinking and for now will probably start with a pair of true perculas, dwarf angel ( I really would like a flame or coral beauty but dont know if I'm willing to take the chance with my corals ), 3-5 pj cardinals, shrimp/goby ( i like the yasha's ) pair or two and possibly fire fish, as well as the usual shrimp, and cleaner crew.

Right now I still have to decide on a return pump, circulation pumps and skimmer. Meschaefer recommended a gravity fed recirc like the octopus but I havent decided and skimmers are the one area where I am most confused. For return pumps I will probably go with a mag 5 or 7 and I really like the reviews and prices on the koralia pumps but am not sure which ones to go with yet. I am also trying to decide where to get LR as I'd like to get the curing process started before school resumes. I am located on the Suffolk North Shore and am not crazy with the LFS's I have seen, though Country Critters in Patchogue was nice but I haven't looked at their LR prices. I'd prefer buying local or from MR but would consider shipping if the price is right. I am eagerly awaiting criticism/advice especially regarding skimmer choice.

 

[jejton]

My main concern with equipement is usage cost. Being that its in the basement, noise is not a major concern but I do want to try and keep the electric bills down. I also prefer ( for circ pumps ) that they take up as little tank space as possible.

 

[jejton]

bump

 

[fritz]

Stay away from Mag pumps. Wattage wise and heat wise they suck. I use(d) them to mix water only. Try ocean runner or eheim for your return pump. You'll need a decent turnover to gravity feed, but you only need as much return as your skimmer can handle, no more. You're going the right route by not using your return pump for flow, much cheaper to go with in tank PHs for flow.

 

[drunktank]

I would def go with a mag-drive pump. I dont trust anything EHIEM, IMO its inferior to Mag drives, although the heat issue can't easily be resolved, just turn down the heater

EHIEMS-
<table class="aquarium_table" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td class="" style="text-align: left; vertical-align: middle;">1250</td><td class="" style="text-align: left; vertical-align: middle;">317 gph</td><td class="" style="text-align: left; vertical-align: middle;">6'7"</td><td class="" style="text-align: left; vertical-align: middle;">28W</td><td class="" style="text-align: left; vertical-align: middle;">
</td><td class="" style="text-align: left; vertical-align: middle;">
</td><td class="" style="text-align: left; vertical-align: middle;">
</td><td class="" style="text-align: left; vertical-align: middle;">
</td></tr><tr class="alternate"><td class="" style="text-align: left; vertical-align: middle;">1260</td><td class="" style="text-align: left; vertical-align: middle;">635 gph</td><td class="" style="text-align: left; vertical-align: middle;">12'1"</td><td class="" style="text-align: left; vertical-align: middle;">65W</td></tr></tbody></table>
MAGS

<table class="aquarium_table" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td class="" style="text-align: left; vertical-align: middle;">Mag Drive 5 (500gph)
</td><td class="" style="text-align: center; vertical-align: middle;">45watts</td><td class="" style="text-align: center; vertical-align: middle;">
</td><td class="" style="text-align: center; vertical-align: middle;">
</td></tr><tr class="alternate"><td class="" style="text-align: left; vertical-align: middle;">Mag Drive 7 (700gph)
</td><td class="" style="text-align: center; vertical-align: middle;">70watts</td></tr></tbody></table>
(MARINEDEPOT.COM)

I personally dunno how much difference u'll notice in 5 watts, but more water flow your corals and fish will. Of course these statistics are company based and could easily be fugged

 

[fritz]

Wow, the "Mag drives suck" isn't an opinion unique to me. If you post this on say 5 or 6 other forums you'll find a common "Mag drives suck" theme to each thread. Mag pumps usually can't handle much of a head and from a watt to GPH comparison they aren't a good value either especially at the higher end.

Eheim pumps are indestructible and can be run external or internal. Most hobbyists regard them as the top of the line as far as submersible goes. A good way to judge equipment IMO is to check the for sale threads. An item that never goes up for sale, or is sold instantly and that most people own is a good one. You never see eheim pumps for sale and when they are for sale it's usually sold quick and for near the "new" price. Mag pumps are usually passed around for free, if that gives you any indication as to their worth.

Ocean runner pumps offer a better GPH to wattage than eheims do but I've never used an OR pump first hand. I've always gone with eheims. Wes used a 1250 on his 65 to gravity feed his deltec and he said it was the perfect return pump for it. I chose a throttled back 1262 for my 58 and I found it to work perfect. I used my return to add some flow but Wes did not. His setup was as you describe yours, return only to feed the skimmer with in tank PHs to circulate water. If I were you I'd opt for the eheim 1260 this way you can throttle it back, thereby using far less wattage, and you'll have extra GPH if you want it.

(Eheim pumps when throttled back to less than 100% do not use the full wattage listed on the box. To oversimplify, the slower the impeller spins, the less wattage they pull)

 

[jejton]

Ok now we're getting somewhere. I will do further research about mag drive vs eheim. Now what about skimmers? I'm pretty much decided that I want to do a gravity fed needle wheel recirculating skimmer. After reading fritz's old thread and some other's I'm convinced that its the most efficient way of doing things but I have to wait for the stand to arrive to make sure I have room to incorporate a Tee and ball valve to keep flow to the skimmer constant. Does anyone have skimmer recommendations for me ? I've been looking at Octopus so far.

Another question regards plumbing. Is there any difference between using vinyl tubing or PVC ( either hard or flex ) ?

Can the Koralias be run on some kind of wave making device/timer?

 

[fritz]

I like hard PVC with some flex here and there. Vinyl tubing freaks me out. With PVC you solve the joints, kind of like welding. It becomes one continuous piece of plastic. Vinyl doesn't have that "weldable" quality. You rely on hose barbs and clamps. I was never able to sleep easy when I've used vinyl, I was always afraid of a hose popping loose.

I would research Ocean Runner pumps vs. Eheims. Check RC, there's usually a "which return pump should I use" thread near the top. They are dominated by Ocean Runner and Eheim recommendations.

 

[jejton]

Oh wow I got moved out of the beginners section. Ok I will look at OR pumps. Now what about skimmer? I dont want to skimp only to have to upgrade but I dont want to spend too much money on something that will just be overkill. I know I know...upgrade and all that but I wont be upgrading anytime in the forseeable future unless it I buy a house and if I buy a house I can always afford a new skimmer. BTW Fritz how's the baby?

 

[jackson6745]

Jejton I had a small euroreef on my 65 gal SPS tank and it did a pretty good job. It all depends on how you will stock and feed.....Which sounds kind of high on the fish load. Go big! Realistically, nothing you can fit will be overkill.

 

[jejton]

Might not be overkill in that sense but I might end up paying more for something I dont need. I'm not trying to skimp but I dont have a money tree in my backyard either so I'd like to pay for what I need and not more.

 

[jejton]

Ok so I am sold on the ocean runner pump. Now do is the 650 gph good for my needs? As for skimmer, well I read way too many pages on the RC thread on octopus skimmers but its an old thread from when they first came out so I am trying to find some more recent reviews. I know they are or just came out with a new line but its probably too early to read any reviews on them. I am open to other suggestions. Criteria are that it can be gravity fed ( so I guess it has to be recirc ), rated at 100 gallons or better, and not too expensive. If I had the stand and sump here I could also figure out how much space I have but that will have to wait.

 

[jejton]

So it looks like I'm going with an Octopus 150 recirculating skimmer. Being that it is gracvity fed, and needs 1-1.5x tank volume/hour, does that mean I need something that does 100 gallons/hour ( figuring some head loss and such ) ? I like what I've read on the Ocean Runner pumps so will be looking for one of those. For in-tank flow I want to go with Koralias. I figure three well placed ones should give me a nice flow. I'm not sure what model's would be appropriate though. I also like the hydor rotating thingamagigee and might replace one of the koralias or just add on a small pump to be able to use that for some variable flow. Does that make sense or should I just rely on the koralia's intersecting flow to create turbulence? There are a few online vendors currently offering them on sale at the moment making them even more attractive.


ok edit because I looked at Ocean Runner and the smallest does 650 gallon/hour so how would that work?

 

[fritz]

You can always throttle it back if need be via a ball valve. The only danger is in getting a pump that is not strong enough. Head loss calculators are good guidelines but I don't think that they are that accurate. A 650 GPH OR pump with around a 4 foot head should be fine.

The hydor flo is cool for nanos but I wouldn't use it in a 65. The hydor flo has a max GPH of 300 GPH.

 

[jejton]

So how do I get some variable flow with the powerheads? Can I put them on a wavemaker strip or do I just rely on their intersecting flows to create random flow?

 

[jejton]

Ok so I went ahead and ordered some stuff:
2 Koralia #3
1 Koralia #2
Ocean Runner 2500 pump ( so I was confused as what to do with this since one says get a stronger pump and throttle back with a ball valve if needed, another says that is not safe to do so I ordered this and can always exchange it for the more powerful one if I need it )
IO Reef Crystals

Still need to get:
RO/DI unit
Sand - what type?
Rock - I want to get a mix of Marco and live but am not sure of how much of each. I dont really need cured since I have to cure the marco anyways, unless I find a local person selling cured rock for a close enough price. I would have liked to get a little FL rock for the hitchhikers and the rest Fiji but I dont think the Fl will work out so it will be all Fiji. Any suggestions on porportions?
Test Kits- I've read people's recs on saliferts but I havent seen master kits online, for Elos either.

 

[meschaefer]

Jejton I had a small euroreef on my 65 gal SPS tank and it did a pretty good job. It all depends on how you will stock and feed.....Which sounds kind of high on the fish load. Go big! Realistically, nothing you can fit will be overkill.

I beg to differ... I had my DAS EX-2 on this very tank and ended up with washed out SPS...then again I only had three tiny fish in it. That skimmer would work great on a 120g...to bad thats just the size of my pimped out starphire sump. :wink1:

 

[jejton]

OK so I finally have the stand delivered ( if anyone needs a good van service, let me know I'll give you their info. I dont know if I can post it here but I did suggest to him that he advertises here ) and have it all down in my basement. How do I delete photos in my gallery?

Anyways, I did a rough measurement ( cant find the tape measure so used a 12" ruler ) and if I setup the sump and skimmer the way I want, I will have a 5' vertical rise from the pump to the output of the return, a 2.5' ( roughly ) horizontal run and two 90 degree elbows, plus whatever valves, unions, etc. are needed. The Ocean Runner 2500 pump shows that at 2 meters ( ~ 6 ft ) it does 1000 l/h (~250 g/h ). If I am gravity feeding my Octopus 150 Recirculating Skimmer, will that be good, too much, too little?

For flow in the tank, I have two Koralia 3's and 1 Koralia 2. I didnt realize how big they are and the overflow box already takes up so much room, so one of those pumps will probably be replaced by something much smaller just for flow behind the rocks. The manual says their magnet is good through 15 mm. glass or acrylic. It didnt feel that strong once I tested it on the ( empty ) tank - will it be ok Matt?

I'm waiting for Marco to get his rocks so I can place an order and get them curing. Then I will buy a few pounds of lr locally from a store or reefer to seed them. I also have to order my sand ( waiting to see if anyone else wants to join ). I am going for a 4" sandbed of sugar fine sand.

The

 

[jejton]

setup came with a 5 gallon resorvoir for topoff but there is a crack in the bottom so I will probably replace that with a bucket or something. Since this is in MY ( wifie has given me one room in the house to claim as my own ) basement, I can have the skimmer outside the sump and emptying into one chamber ( on the right ). The left chamber will be a 'fuge ( basically just some lr for pods and maybe to let macro grow but more to feed any herbivores I get rather than any nutrient exporting ). I will tee the drain with one going to the fuge and the other part going to the skimmer ( like Fritz's thread ). Both chambers will overflow into the middle where the return pump will be. The drain is 1" and the return is 3/4" ( have to double check ). My main thing now is to figure out how to plumb everything since I've never done this before. I really dont know where I am putting unions, valves, bushings, couplers, etc and all that good stuff. The inlet on the skimmer is a 1" barb if I remember correctly. The output of the pump is 3/4" so if my measurements are all correct that should simplify things, no? ( meaning no upsizers downsizers, etc for the PVC pipe ). Where do I place the different valves, and what type do I use? Does it matter if I do threaded or slip joints? If I do the former, do I thread the pipes myself or do I buy threaded? Does schedule 40 or 80 make a difference?

 

[jejton]

Heres the sump.