Denitrifying filter system

[dreko]

http://www.northcoastmarines.com/denitrifying_filters.htm
Has a filter system for reducing nitrates, and now phosphates.

I'd like members to take a quick peek at the site, has pics and info, and post
there thoughts here...
It's expensive, about 560.00 dollars or so...

Is a DIY system better? Are you actually using one?

I'd love to hear advanced reefkeepers thoughts on this item

Andre

 

[House of Laughter]

Dre,

How goes it?

The question turns back to you and what you're trying to get out of having one of these. If you want to eliminate water changes I am of the cloth that you are doing yourself a disservice as this type of system will not be able to accommodate the necessary trace elements and minerals in synthetic salts I feel necessary to keep healthy animals.

If you want to stock your tank to the hilt yet still maintain a regular water change regimen, then maybe it's a good addition - is that desire worth the $549 plus additives? THAT , only you can answer.

Will it work, I am sure it does, but there sounds to be too many moving parts and needs (additives etc) for this pragmatic reefer. Remember, I only recently added a phosban reactor and carbon reactor to my system.

I do not personally use one - I do my weekly 35g water changes in less than 10 minutes and call it a day.

Hope that helps and good luck with the responses - I'd be curious to see how one works.

House

 

[dreko]

Hey Jim
First off, I'm glad the fire did not turn into a very serious life threatening disaster.

You are right, I do want to pack my tank to the 'gills'
I do weekly 15% water changes... sometimes it might slip to 2 weeks...
I'd like to push this to every other week...

My parameters are all great, but I've been thinking of supplementing the nitrate reduction.
I do have a nice skimmer, DSB ,Macro Algae export in sump and I dose Iron for faster macro algae growth. I'm thinking of adding a RDSB (5 gallon bucket) , and a DIY Coil denitrification system. Together all of these should bring nitrates down to zero, or as close as possible...
The RDSB and Coil system, I believe will be relatively inexpensive, maintenance free and a huge plus in the current husbandry.

I do think the http://www.northcoastmarines.com/den...ng_filters.htm setup requires too much maintenance and expense... I was just curious if any of our members have a system like this...

On another note,
I just bought a UV sterilization unit and ozonizer to add to the mix.... I'll slowly introduce these guys into the system and see how they help...

Anycase, for a mixed reef setup, I'm hoping I can really pack the heck out of my tank, and maintain close to NSW conditions...

we'll see!

Andre

 

[Bob 1000]

As an owner of this reactor I say hey jump in it's worth it... Nitrates mean a lot if you ask me... I've kept all types of fish together when people said I couldn't..I pride my tank in this reactor...Ask yourself " are you perfect and will you always be able to devote yourself to water changes all the time?? I go on vacation alot... I can't say I'll always be there for my tank I have children too... I have one thing to say about this reactor.....My wife likes it..
Water changes can be put off for a long time without ill affects... But there are people here that don't do water changes for a long time without this reactor also....

It does take about 4 months to get to this level though and if you do decide on purchasing this reactor... I'll walk you though the in's and out's... When you first start this you will find it quite difficult, that's why I say I'll help you out...
And oh yeah I don't own a Ferrrari so if you ask me about it I can only talk about what I have read about it or heard about it......:Up_to_som

 

[jhale]

the PO4 removal has me more interested in this than the NO3 removal. I don't like using GFO's.
I view this as a supplement to water changes and skimming. Changing the equivalent of 60 gallons a day is a pretty large claim, if it works that well I would consider trying one.

 

[Bob 1000]

It actually does and flushes every 4 hours.. I don't continuesly run the phosphate option but the nitrate stays running... As long as your not adding Po4 than you don't need to run this all the time... Once a week I'll add brine or mysis but mostly add brine shrimp eggs..

 

[jhale]

I feed mysis 3 times a day, so my battle with Po4 is constant.

how long do the additives last?

 

[lfsmarineguy]

It looks like someones DIY project.

 

[Bob 1000]

The gal of phosphagone last me about 6 months because of the size of my system...If you have a tank that under 100 it will probably last you a year,but before you can start using this your phosphates have to be very low, like almost nonexistant on a salifert test kit or better...

I think it can be done I just haven't had the time to finish to one I'm making...I would just suggest you buy their doser so that the dosing is on point..

 

[jhale]

have you measured the NO3 going in and coming out of the system?
when you set it up did you have high NO3?
I'm trying to get a handle on how effective their product really is.
I'd like to measure the Po4 as well. If there is .003 going in and .000 coming out
on my hanna meter I would be impressed.

They need to explain it in more detail on the site. I'm always extremely skeptical of proprietary chemical or biological products that make huge claims and not backing up what they say with proper data.

 

[Bob 1000]

Once the water in the reactor has cycled down to 0 then you set it to flush.. Checking the system everyday to see if it is going faster. I have the good bacteria already and I could give you some that will make this go a lot faster.....I've been using sali test kits from the begining... When you first get it and set it up it takes 24 to m36 hours to cycle nitrates down then it slowly works it way down to every four hours with you testing before you flush it of course..This process of going from 36hrs down to every 4 takes about 3 to 4 months... Maybe sooner if you system is under 100gal..
Yes when I started my trates were high and I was doing watre changes every week with an over stocked tank...This has been running for almost 3years I think now...
It does take a while if you have to do this by yourself but now that I know the process I can help anyone with the process and may be able to shorten that 4 months down to 2 maybe 3 months..
Ps in the begining you'll go through sali test kits every 2 or 3 weeks..

 

[MrAnderson]

They need to explain it in more detail on the site. I'm always extremely skeptical of proprietary chemical or biological products that make huge claims and not backing up what they say with proper data.

I agree. It's unfortunate that these companies treat these components as if they are proprietary when they actually aren't; they're simply secret. There's a difference, you can't patent bacteria unless you've genetically modified a strain. However, keeping the strains used in devices like this secret is just lame and protects their marketing of common environmental denitrifiers. However by keeping it secret, they mask the fact that their biological components are simply environmental strains one probably already has growing in one's own aquarium

This looks like just a scaled-down version of a typical wastewater denitrifier. These devices do not contain exotic strains of denitrifying bacteria (usually Psuedomonas stutzeri or Paracoccus denitrificans, *yawn) and the "special food" is also typically vapid. My point is, these things are easily DIY-able, even the super-special bugs and their foods.

In this same vein, they get a dig in on coil denitrifiers, which coincidentally are super-easy to DIY. Why they do this I do not know, they are extremely efficient, simple and work extremely well. So well and simple, that large aquariums like the Montreal Biodome with super high bioloads like sharks and whales utilize methanol-fed coil denitrifiers. Organizations like this cannot afford the risk associated with the complexity of devices like this. I'd actually feel comfortable saying that that particular claim on their website isn't accurate - their device is far more complex and prone to failure than a denitrifying coil.

I don't doubt that it works - denitrifiers are biologically simple devices. However I would encourage people to google topics in wastewater denitrification and build your own out of a bucket or sump rather than spend 5-large on this simple device. You're overpaying for something you could build yourself for a fraction of the cost.

 

[Bob 1000]

I agree. It's unfortunate that these companies treat these components as if they are proprietary when they actually aren't; they're simply secret. There's a difference, you can't patent bacteria unless you've genetically modified a strain. However, keeping the strains used in devices like this secret is just lame and protects their marketing of common environmental denitrifiers. However by keeping it secret, they mask the fact that their biological components are simply environmental strains one probably already has growing in one's own aquarium

This looks like just a scaled-down version of a typical wastewater denitrifier. These devices do not contain exotic strains of denitrifying bacteria (usually Psuedomonas stutzeri or Paracoccus denitrificans, *yawn) and the "special food" is also typically vapid. My point is, these things are easily DIY-able, even the super-special bugs and their foods.

In this same vein, they get a dig in on coil denitrifiers, which coincidentally are super-easy to DIY. Why they do this I do not know, they are extremely efficient, simple and work extremely well. So well and simple, that large aquariums like the Montreal Biodome with super high bioloads like sharks and whales utilize methanol-fed coil denitrifiers. Organizations like this cannot afford the risk associated with the complexity of devices like this. I'd actually feel comfortable saying that that particular claim on their website isn't accurate - their device is far more complex and prone to failure than a denitrifying coil.

I don't doubt that it works - denitrifiers are biologically simple devices. However I would encourage people to google topics in wastewater denitrification and build your own out of a bucket or sump rather than spend 5-large on this simple device. You're overpaying for something you could build yourself for a fraction of the cost.

So, do you have a source for methanol??? I'd like to get some...

 

[Wes]

Bob, I hope you don't take offense to this. But since you recently posted some pics, and also claim the phosphate removal works well, and do not use a decent test kit...

I just want to point out that you have ALOT of green in your tank for someone who claims to have Low phosphates...

the above pic is not a pic of a low phosphate environment. Have you ever had your phosphate measured w/ something other than Salifert (worthless test) ?

Im happy w/ my DIY coil denitrifier and GFO I can probably go a LONG time w/out nitrates building up but I still do weekly waterchanges to replenish the trace elements mentioned above.

 

[Bob 1000]

I have slacked off with the purchase of a bottle of the phosphate option liquid and been feeding alot of silversides to the groupers and eel with no rinse and leaving the fish in a cup way too long.. But don't have a hair algae problem and my coral colors are still as bright as the beginning even deeper colors so I have a taken a more laxed attitude to the level of phosphate that has come up a little... I have always had green coralline though..
Oh yeah, I think salifert phosphate is good test kit.... It's not a hanna but it catches the exceptable level in most tanks...

 

[MrAnderson]

So, do you have a source for methanol??? I'd like to get some...

just google "reagent grade methanol", it's not illegal to buy. any of the typical scientific suppliers carries it (VWR, Wards, Sargent Welch, etc.)

probably worth the stretch. i bet it would work better than whatever "food" they supply that denitrifier with. inorganic carbon is used more efficiently by denitrifiers, better C:N ratio and all that.

 

[jackson6745]

For some reason I can't stop thinking about Vodka, sugar, and vinegar when I see those additives for the reactor.
Bob can you tell me what those additives smell like?

 

[jackson6745]

Bob, what do they smell like?

 

[Bob 1000]

No real smell but I will be trying to get the additives from a place like the one mentioned by MrAnderson... Thanks..

 

[ClosetFishGeek]

I use a denitrifier as well a sulfur version and i like it. However, i use it Not as a subsitute for poor husbandry but an additional level of help for my large stocking levels as well as my feeding habbits...I have had great success with this denitrifier and a phosphate media(rowa).