Ich immunity

[Paul B]

I mentioned the depth of the water as one cause of possable stress. If the tank is 18" deep and we then put the fish in a tank 24" deep we increased the depth by 25%.
I don't know what the fish feels but I would imagine that deeper is better. But no matter what the tank depth is we can not match the sea. Fish are found at different depths because thats where they were programmed to live. If you do any diving or snorkling in the tropics if you look in very shallow rock overhangs and caves you may see a school of beautiful fish called "Copper Sweepers" I have never seen these fish in water deeper than a few feet and they are not real small, maybe 3".
(I don't know why I never saw them for sale) Anyway, they are in shallow water because they want to be there and I would imagine that if you released a school into deep water they would be severly stressed and head for shore.
Just about everything in a tank stresses fish and we can't do much for most of it. We can make up for some of it by keeping them well fed so they don't try to go on long treks looking for food and we should avoid bullies which is probably the most severe stress. I remember when I was in grammar school and I knew a bigger kid wanted to mess with me, I would walk to school a different way because he scared the hell out of me. I guess I was stressed.
Paul

 

[h20 freak]

It's true that the fact/theory "healthy fish are resistant to ich" seems odd, ich is a parasite,not a disease. If you compare it to us, no matter how healthy we are,our health can't stop us from getting stomach worms or mosquito bites.It's weird but it seems to be true.

 

[Sean]

Cryptocaryn or Ich attaches to the mucus of the fish so if there weak maybe the slime or mucus is weak allowing the parasite to more easily attach to the fish and munch on it's tissue. Thats how I've always thought of it. I would agree with Paul that healthy fish are less susceptible to Ich.

 

[Paul B]

Humans do not have body slime (most of us don't anyway) The slime is exuded by the fish for a few reasons. One is disease or paracite protection. In a clownfish it protects them from anemone stings. If we "slime" ourselves with insect repellent we are protected from mosqueto bites. Fish have just found a way to make the stuff themselves. I don't know how much research went into fish slime but I doubt there was much money involved in it.

 

[ari5736]

If one has ich in his tank, and the current inmates (fish) are resistant, won't almost all new fish that get introduced develop the ich due to a weakened immunity from transfer, hence preventing additions of new fish? In the alternative do you think it would it be safe to introduce new fish when all the current fish are not showing symptoms?

 

[Paul B]

Ari5736, new fish do not necessarily develop ich even if ich is in the tank. Ich has been in my reef for three decades and I have no problem adding new fish unless the new fish is already infected. I added two fish today. Of course this is not 100% true of all tanks. It depends on the conditiion of the new fish, the stress level in the tank, the amount of infection in the tank, the temperature and a variety of other things.
It is vastly better if there is no ich in our tanks in the first place. A stressed fish added to a tank with ich stands a very good chance to get the disease in which case you may have to remove the fish to cure. After it is cured, it "may" have a better chance to avoid the disease when it is added to your tank. I am in no way advising you to add a fish to a tank with ich, just giving my opinion on what may happen.
Unfortunately, many tanks, for one reason or another are infected with ich. The reason for this thread was to try to find out why some tanks crash from ich with massive die offs and in some tanks it is not a problem.
Have a great day.
Paul

 

[ari5736]

Thank you Paul; imo this is a very informative thread in that it describes the experiences of members who have dealt with ick.

 

[h20 freak]

Another thing that causes stress is water depth. Very few adult fish live in water as shallow as our tanks. They have a built in sense that it is not safe there. In the sea there are birds and crabs that prey on shallow water fish. Fish know what depth water thay are in. Fish like Royal Grammas are deep water fish. I have seen many of them deeper than 120'. They live there because they were made to adjust to that water depth.

Wouldn't that make some damselfish best suited(if the category were to exist) for tank life seeing as they are collected from shallow tide pools with varying parameters.This is the environment our tanks resemble closest.

 

[Paul B]

H2o, That may be the reason damsels do very well and even breed in tanks.
Tangs, butterflies, moorish Idols and many other comparitively open water fish do not adjust as well. Even spiny box fish and porcupine fish do not stay in one place in the sea. Thats why we often see them swimming up and down the glass on one side of the tank.

 

[Earlie]

It's true that the fact/theory "healthy fish are resistant to ich" seems odd, ich is a parasite,not a disease. If you compare it to us, no matter how healthy we are,our health can't stop us from getting stomach worms or mosquito bites.It's weird but it seems to be true.

I find this statement to be very true. However when you do know that you have Ich in your tank but your fish are fine and so are all the lps and sps and everything how do you fully remove it from the tank or is it forever to be in the tank.

 

[Sandyp1]

OK.........Ive read the whole thread. I have a 70G tank with 100lbs of live rock, Euro skimmer , and a Current Outer Orbit Fixture w/2 150 W 14000K bulbs and 4 actinics. My tank is about 6 months old and was running hot once spring came allong, so I bought a chiller. It now is steady at 76 to 77 deg. I have 2 clowns, a goby, mystery wraisse, a Midas blenny and a lot of LPS. I recently found a Black Tang at a reputable dealer ( A member here ) and after 4 days in my tank, i came home to find little white dots on it. So, after reading the thread......should I raise the tank temp slowly to about 80 and feed my fish a garlic supplement and hope for the best ? You can see my tank in the photography forum under Sandyp1. I paid a lot of money for the Tang and dont want to lose him or have the other fish get infested. Any advise would help. P.S. ----------- I dont have a quarantine tank.

 

[Chiefmcfuz]

Leave the temp alone. Feed garlic extract with your food. This will help boost the immunity of the fish in the tank. There is never a way to be completely ich free but QTing the fish is a great way to keep it away. Always always always QT. If I were you now I would go do petland and get a small setup of a 20 long or a 40 breeder and set it up as a qt tank and do a large water change putting most of the qt water as the old tank water. then I would buy a salifert copper test kit and some good copper treatment, and treat the fish with copper. DO NOT COPPER YOUR DISPLAY TANK!!!!!

keep the fish in the QT/Hospital tank for about 6 weeks to guarantee that all the ich in your display has hatched, found no host and died. Then add the fish to your display slowly acclimating them to your display tank as you would if you had just bought them. DO NOT LET THE QT/HOSP WATER GET INTO THE DISPLAY TANK.

Good luck.

 

[Sandyp1]

So you're saying remove ALL the fish ? Or just the infected one ? Its going to be a trip to catch them all. Have you seen my tank ? , its full of caves ! Is there any other way ?

 

[Chiefmcfuz]

Yes remove them all.

You could leave them in there no problem it's up to you. Hopefully it will go away on it's own. But do you want to play roulette with your tank?

 

[Sandyp1]

I always lose money at Atlantic City ! I think I have more invested in my tank ! Thanks, I guess im going fishing !

 

[pecan2phat]

Did you know that the average reef temperature in the tropics is 82 degrees? IMO, 76-77 is on the cool side.
Ick is a parasite, so it won't go away on it's own. You'll see a lot of cases where light infestation and strong health and immune systems will keep the parasite at bay but the tell tale sign is once they are stressed, the parasite rears it's head.

 

[Sandyp1]

So, obviously the Black Tang is new to my tank, so the stress caused the infestation. But do you guys think I should raise the temp in my tank from 76 to maybe 78 degrees ? I just added 2 cleaner shrimps today and bought some Garlic Extreme to use to marinate the krill and also to supplement the tank with a few drops.

 

[NYreefNoob]

you have any cleaner shrimp ? that will help as well, i myself and not that it cleared tank of ick but i use a vortex to plich water and when i had an ich problem it seemed to help not saying it was the reason, but a day later and after constant feeding with garlic all was better, messing with the tank or adding new fish ect can cause it to break back out

 

[Paul B]

Sandy this thread was not meant to imply that all or even most tanks are immune from ich. All tanks can be infected with ich especially new ones which will almost definately become infected if you don't quarantine. For some reason, in some tanks, the fish may become partially immune but not all tanks and certainly not in new tanks.
You should take out all the fish to treat and leave the tank with no fish for 6 weeks. You can try to leave the fish in there and hope they will get cured but I think you may lose all of your fish.
Sorry.
Paul

 

[bigbbinthehouse]

I checked my tank yesterday before leaving for work, all was fine. I come home, all was fine. I stepped out for about 3 hours and check tank and my coral beauty has white spots all over his head. It was 11:30 and I said, oh well, I am not breaking down tank to catch him. I have a 90g w/180lbs of rock, established 3 yrs ago. I get up this morning, check him, and no white spots at all. I have a pepermint shrimp that hides all day and only comes out at night, could he have cleaned him? I have had him for about a month now w/no problems. I also have a yellow tang, purple tang, b/w clown, blue devil, lawnmower blenny and a purple sudo all w/o any problems with ich. Am I lucky?