fake live rock

[seansdad]

Hi All,

I know what most people think of GARF, but their idea of using man-made live rock appeals to me given that it does not impact reefs. Has anyone ever used man-made rock in the reef tank? If so, what do you see as the pros/cons and would you do it again? I'm working on a 125gal SPS tank but i want it based on minimual impact on natural reefs.

 

[cdeakle]

I belive that some companies that sell live rock actually dump rock into the ocean to make it live. If I was you and money wasnt a problem I would look for such a company and buy liverock for them. You get quality liverock without harming the reefs.

If you made your own though you could probably save a fair amount of moolah.

 

[Len]

Some companies collect live rock from rubble zones that have minimal impact on actual reefs. Others, like Walt Smith, sell cultured live rock. The advantages of buying live rock from the wild (cultured or uncultured) is simply increased biodiversity. Of course, every now and then you get some critters you don't want, but the benefits greatly outweigh the risks.

Making your own live rock works as well. It's just you'll have a lot less biological diversity in your tank compared to using real live rock, and perhaps real reef rock makes for better habitat for critters that bore within rocks. It's also harder to form the small nooks and crannies with home-made rock that makes real live rock so special and interesting.

 

[seansdad]

I'll look at Walt Smith's website, but what is the difference between cultured and uncultured rock? aren't they both from a reef and hence the collection of which will negatively impact the natural reef?

What do you think of using made made rock and adding just a few pounds of "real" like rook for seeding purposes? Garf sells their cured fake stuff for $5/lb which is cheaper than the real stuff but still not cheap when you consider I'll need approx. 125lbs.

 

[Anonymous]

Cultured live rock is taken from a land based mine, or in Walts case, man-made using cement and some type of rock, then dumped into the ocean. Wild rock is just that, created by nature.

 

[Len]

Cultured rock is farmed rock, just like 420puff was suggesting. They drop "dead" rock (not sure if it's mined aragonite or man-made material) into living reefs and collect it after a period of time.

The animals and plants being removed from live rock collection of any kind are very prolifec. Macroalgae, small crustaceans, worms, etc .... they are all very renewable, managable resources and the collection of rock will not threaten their survival.

Using man-made rock seeded with some real live rock will work, but again, it will have less bio-diversity then using all real rock. In addition, a possible concern is the habitability of these rocks for boring animals.

FYI: Real live rock can be had for much less then $5/lb (shipped!). Just take a look at any of our sponsors: www.reefs.org/sponsor.html

 

[cdeakle]

Can't go wrong with that price! The live diversity you will find can be as amazing as the fish you buy IMO.

 

[ghofmann]

Like you I was looking for an alternative to live rock something that was less expensive and didn't have an impact on the reefs. What I came up with was Tufa or lace rock. I decided to go this route instead of man made rock simply because this rock comes from ancient coral reefs I beleive it is a form of limestone. It is very soft and poreus I used about 50 pounds of lace rock and 10 pounds of live rock (to seed the lace). After 5 months in the tank the lace rock is teeming with pods, featherdusters, and many of the other types of life that come on the live rock. There is a significant amount of coralin algea growing on them now too. I belive that in another 5 or 6 months the lace rock will be indistinguishable from the live rock. The best part is that it only cost $1.49 a pound. Another plus is that I will never have to worry about pulling a mantis shrimp or an evil crab out of my tank. Any tanks that I set up in the future will also be done with this rock.

 

[Anonymous]

what i heard is a good idea for making your own rock (not sure if it is on GARF) is to mix pasta in it.
something like angel hair spaghetti would create plenty of tunnels.
the pasta should break down pretty easily in the curing process.

i would throw in shells and aragonite sand too.

gotta admit, i never have made any with the pasta idea though

 

[liquid]

I'm going to copy this to the DIY forum (leaving a shadow topic in the GRD) as I've seen people talk about this over there.

Shane

 

[Fl_Seagull]

I have made "rock" using the cement and oyster shell process. The most amazing aspect of this rock is the porosity that can be obtained. Having said that, the rock is ugly and will be ugly in your tank for several months. It is also a messy and fustrating process to get "interesting" shapes. I would guess that I would have to make another 200 lb of rock before my artist skill made the shapes interesting enough to make up for the months of staring at grey rocks.

Since Phosphates are a major concern in SPS tanks, I would be somewhat concerned about using oyster shells. The phosphate level is initially very high during curing. After a multitude of water changes it drops down. I don't have enough experience with this rock to know if it completely goes away.

GARF does not use oyster shell. That would eliminate the phosphate issue. However, at $5/lb I would consider uncured live rock.

 

[ricky1414]

do you guys know how long it takes to cure the garf rocks? you need to cure it for weeks, much longer than suggested, so that you dont have a major ph spike from the nasties leeching into the water from the cement. Check out http://www.marinedepotlive.com/live-rock-sand.html i believe that these are some of the best prices for LR.

 

[Anonymous]

When I talked to walt smith at macna he said that the rock he was making had been curing for over a year in the ocean at specific sites. He uses sand(carbonate), cement, pumus and iron oxide powder (for the attraction of animals and algaes to his rocks). His rock looked pretty damn good compared to what I've seen through the other fak rock. BTW pasta eventually will lead to nitrates and nitrite spikes and or a detriment to your aquarium if not done perfectly. If your going to use objects to create porosity in your rock just go to your local landscaping stone store and get yourself a bucket of vesicular volcanic rocks.

 

[Anonymous]

Another option is limestone. I read that all the LR cultured in the gulf of Mexico is Florida limestone.

So I went out to a limestone quarry and picked up 50 pounds of great looking rocks that had just been mined out of the ground (no polution or acid rain in them). I soaked them in water for a few days and then plopped 30 pounds into my reef...six months later it is all covered with purple and all kinds of corals and life and you wouldn't be able to tell which rocks I got for free at a limestone quarry and which ones I payed $7 a pound for.


If you don't have a limestone quarry 10 minutes from your house like I do, and odds are most of you don't, you can look up any paving company; they use crushed limestone as a base for roadways and odds are they get shipments of rock. If you tell them it's for a school project or some cancer research or something, they'll probably give you 100 pounds for free.

 

[psiico]

I've made some of my own Aragocrete. I used Caribsea aragonite sand and white portland cement. That way you don't have ugly grey rocks, you get ugly white rocks, lol.

I only made about 10 lbs as a test. My first piece is just a lump like a potato. But my 2nd and third I made caves in. My porcelain crab never comes out of the one cave hardly. And the last piece I experimented with a branching shape.

I kept them in a 5 gallon bucket in my bathroom. Everytime I had to flush, I changed the water. So 2 or 3 times a day. I did it for about a month and a week, by then the water had a pH of 7.8. Let the rock sit for 12 hours in the water before testing pH.

They've been in the tank about 2 weeks so far and coralline algae is already starting to grow. The two caves I made are very popular with my crabs and bittle star, each is a bit thicker then your thumb. One is a dead end and the other goes right through the rock. I'm so pleased with the tunnels/caves I plan to make some more rock. Next time I'm going to try rock salt in the mix.

Attached is a pic of a piece someone made on Garf's page, I want to make something like that next time. It's like a fish hotel!

 

[billyk]

It's not quite DIY but I got some really great rock from thesehttp://www.hirocks.com/Index.html guys. Lots of holes very porus, I am using it for the base in my 65.

 

[grav]

Just read this for the 1st time.

School project or Cancer research?!?!?! Cancer isn't funny, but doing cancer research with 100#s of limestone is.

 

[Meloco14]

You may want to go the way of base rock plus live rock if you're looking to save money and protect the reefs without too much time and effort. Ive heard that some of those man made garf rocks take close to a year to fully cure and stop leaching chemicals. If I were you I'd visit a local building supply store. I got some Mexican Pot Rock at one for 45 cents a pound, and they said that was one of their more expensive rocks! It is similar to Tufa. I'm sure you'll be able to find limestone at a building supply for very cheap. You can use this as base rock then suppliment with some live rock. If you look around you will find that lots of live rock is reef safe. I may be wrong but I believe tampa bay saltwater's rock is terrestrial rock that they put in the ocean for a few years to become live. I've heard good things about the company too, so you might want to look into them. Good luck, and I'm glad to hear you are doing all you can to make sure you're not damaging our coral reefs!

 

[shr00m]

if your trying to save money and use some type of base rock def mix in live rock so you have some diversity, id say 10 lbs to every 20 or 30 lbs of "fake live rock"

 

[Sprattoo]

I make my own rock then "grow it in my tank"

http://www.reefs.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=45804

I posted the long process. Be prepared to not put the rocks in your tank for a few months and much work... but Now that I have a finished product and continue to make rock.. it's not so bad.

The best best bestest oart is I can form my rock however I want I feel more connected to my tank and I feel good about distributing non-reef harvested rock.

I know GARF has a bad rep... but their Grunge is good stuff for seeding rock. BTW The lava rock and Tuffa IMHO doesn't grow a thing on it. I believe its a lack of calcium or something... I put a chunk in and was far from impressed with results.