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That is why you have to be very sure that your male gets some good food in his belly between broods, because the female will often be ready to give him a new batch of eggs soon after he releases.
Breeding Bangaii Cardinals
- Thread starter psychorugby
- Start date
While it may appear to be the case that males do not feed whilist carrying a mouthfull of eggs they do slowly consume them. An average spawn of eggs is in excess of 1000 and in some other cardinal species as many as 3000 quite a large quanity of food for the male considering an average hatch quanity of only 20. Suprisingly the number of eggs produced varies more so by the males mouth size capacity to carry the eggs. Female size is irrelevant as a small female say 1.5'" can produce just as many eggs as one 2" in length. Where size is reversed i.e male is smaller than female not as many eggs will be produced. Therefore it is always best to house small females with larger males to create a higher fedundcity rate. As for seperating males from females to give them a feed this is not necessary as in most cases the male if hungry enough will just consume the eggs if he does not have enough nutrition to carry them full term. However it is advisible to "winter" highly productive pairs for at least 3-4 months of year to eliminate burnout One must remember in the natural habitat fish don't breed year round.
If you use a technique called striping which is is most commonly used in mouth brooding afican cichlids, just after a spawn you may be pleasantly suprised by the vast number of eggs that are actually there. While this is the technique that i have used on numerous occasions. I must warn you! that it can be "very stressfull" on the fish that you are preforming such task. At the same time once you have removed the gelatinous mass of eggs, if you look at them under a scope you will see that not all are fertile. Whether this is related to the gelatine like binding substance adhering the eggs together stopping the males sperm from fertilising them or just imcompitance on the males behalf is yet to be proven.
- Location
- Duluth, MN
When I stripped eggs in our African Cichlid Hatchery, the process was stressful but usually worked. We filled a small container (i.e. 1 gallon bucket) with system water, then caught the brooding female. Sometimes she'd simply spit the eggs in the net upon capture.
The more determined females well, here's how we did it. GENTLY holding the female in my right hand, I'd manage to catch the lower lip with a fingertip, fingernail, or in the case of small fish, the rounded "bar" that makes up a paperclip, and open the mouth. We'd then move the fish backwards, up and out of the container of water, causing water to enter through the gills and flush the contents of the mouth OUT and into the container.
I haven't tried this with any cardinalfish yet. There is a contingent amoung African Cichlid breeders that believes that stripping of eggs or fry from the parents can result in the next generation being less likely to NATURALLY brood and rear young. I can't say that I personally put any credence in that notion, it is something to consider (I guess...).
FWIW,
MP
The more determined females well, here's how we did it. GENTLY holding the female in my right hand, I'd manage to catch the lower lip with a fingertip, fingernail, or in the case of small fish, the rounded "bar" that makes up a paperclip, and open the mouth. We'd then move the fish backwards, up and out of the container of water, causing water to enter through the gills and flush the contents of the mouth OUT and into the container.
I haven't tried this with any cardinalfish yet. There is a contingent amoung African Cichlid breeders that believes that stripping of eggs or fry from the parents can result in the next generation being less likely to NATURALLY brood and rear young. I can't say that I personally put any credence in that notion, it is something to consider (I guess...).
FWIW,
MP
I use the same proceedure. I prefer to scare the jeebies out of the Banggai to try to get it to spit so I don't have to touch them.
In my experience stripping the eggs makes it more likely that a Banggai will hold the next batch to term. I believe this is because it gives them more time to fatten up and store energy.
In my experience stripping the eggs makes it more likely that a Banggai will hold the next batch to term. I believe this is because it gives them more time to fatten up and store energy.
Here is a cool little video I shot yesterday of my ORA Bangaii Pair's FIRST clutch. I was surprised because I thought they were still too young.
http://www.reefobsession.com/movies/bangaii_2006.wmv
Enjoy!
http://www.reefobsession.com/movies/bangaii_2006.wmv
Enjoy!
Here are the results of that brood. I thought the papa had spit all the eggs so I was getting worried when I didn't see him eating still. Captured him to see if he was injured or something and bam...he spit 5 babies into my hand!
Here they are hiding in their fake urching and filling up with bbs
Here they are hiding in their fake urching and filling up with bbs
Attachments
Just a quick update, fry are 9 days old and still going strong. Eating well on bbs and cyclopeeze.
Also as a side note... These parents came from ORA and we had ordered 8 of them. As it turns out, of the 8 we have 3 confirmed pairs! I thought those odds were just amazing so I wanted to put that out there. All three of the pairs have spawned, two of the pairs have produced fry..the third pair resulted in an early spit of the eggs.
Thanx
Also as a side note... These parents came from ORA and we had ordered 8 of them. As it turns out, of the 8 we have 3 confirmed pairs! I thought those odds were just amazing so I wanted to put that out there. All three of the pairs have spawned, two of the pairs have produced fry..the third pair resulted in an early spit of the eggs.
Thanx
Great Info thanks!
Did your fry eat cyclopeze right away or did they grow a bit first?
Which is smaller, the cyclopeze or the BBS?
I'm going to try raising some Pajama cardinals, which are smaller, so hopefully they will eat rotifers first. but wondering if ground up cyclopeze might be small enough too?
Chris
Did your fry eat cyclopeze right away or did they grow a bit first?
Which is smaller, the cyclopeze or the BBS?
I'm going to try raising some Pajama cardinals, which are smaller, so hopefully they will eat rotifers first. but wondering if ground up cyclopeze might be small enough too?
Chris
chrismo":1vyw8xdi said:
Hello Chris-
They did not eat cyclopeeze right away. Nor did I offer it right away. It was not offered until they were about a week old. Even then I think they were actually trying to get some live bbs and accidentally got some cyclopeeze.
The bbs is smaller, and the movement gets their attention. With PJ's I would think that rotifers are a great first food for about a week, then bbs. Remember that PJ's release their young earlier than Bangaii do (in most cases)
I've just received my second batch of baby bangaii's this morning. I keep a breeding log at http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthrea ... did=969634 but wanted to stop in and say what a great job some of you are doing. I can hardly believe some of you have babies eating cyclopeeze that early, my 2 month old babies are stubborn and won't eat anything other than the BBS. So glad to see other people breeding these fish, there so limited in the wild and I'd hate to see them on the endangered species list in the future.
Can anyone recommend a site for information on breeding PJ cardinals? I may be getting a pair inthe future, once my Bangaii's get moved into there breeding station.
Keep up the great work!
Adam
Can anyone recommend a site for information on breeding PJ cardinals? I may be getting a pair inthe future, once my Bangaii's get moved into there breeding station.
Keep up the great work!
Adam
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