the never ending upgrade

[pecan2phat]

Dolomite usually won't work or melt in reactors that utilize the ever popular ARM media. Dolomite needs an effluent PH of 6.2 or lower which would turn ARM into mush.
Dolomite would work if you run different media such as the course Koralith and run a low effluent PH.

 

[DRZL]

my media is at 6.5-6.6 w/ ARM and ZeoMag granules(dolomite) in my first chamber and its working out well so far, although it does dissolve faster under lower pH, just add more dolomite and problem solved. FWIW I have a 2 inch band of dolomite in my CR

Ca 420-440
Alk 9-9.4
Mag 1350-1400

 

[pecan2phat]

Andre,
Is Zeomag easy to get? Sounds like it might work better than the generic dolomite that we use to use as substrate in a SW tank.

 

[spykes]

we have never said CR is a bad peice of equipment. Andres you know us already we dont do that. JUst dosing 2 part solutions is more cost efficent then using a CR. two buckets last me over a year and last rich and herman about 6 months. do you notice initial start of CR is around a higher price then just 179 dolalrs for a doser pump from aquamedic? maying for a canister of co2 and media can cost as much as making 10 buckets of 2 part. running 45 watts constantly with a recirculating moter vs a 4.5 watt moter every day that only comes on for a second? co2 going into the water lowers the amount of cacification state, i cant prove this to everyone, but at higher PH calcification does happen more reapidly. steve is a example with a CR never really grew that quickly, then all of a sudden adding a kalk reactor to drive the co2 out of the water extremly helped the growth. almost insane; rich is using it and he turned off his reactor because this stuff works for him as well. herman, me and ctx also is dosing this stuff.

Whos constantly upgrading?

I think another one of the reasons we are constantly upgrading, is because we are constantly trying to cut corners, especially at the beginning, which we pay for later.




BTW J dont fret on the CR haters :p, if you can't personally understand the reason to do so, (as if there is a difference in the kind of target substances we are trying to add) dont switch from a CR. There are many great SPS tanks on CR and personally I think a CR which melts coral skeletons (which means exactly what corals uptook at some time along w/ many more trace elements than a 2 part) is more logical. Another thing I notice is that many reefers dont use their reactor effectively by adding dolomite, which is your magnesium, then they find themselves supplementing and find its purpose defeating and start questioning the CR prematurely.

Everyone has there own thing of course, and some people would be hardpressed to change, while others are willing to try what hardpressed guy is doing.

I just dont see the logic, so I dont exercise it.

 

[Chiefmcfuz]

Done upgrading untill I buy a house. Well maybe I'll add another PH and upgrade the lights when I can afford it but that's along time from now. So the house looks like it comes in between the PH and the Lights LOL, Maybe a new skimmer too, and then maybe..........LOL It's a sickness LOL

 

[loismustdie]

Jhale, I can't think of anyone who has never upgraded. I've been in this hobby for around 16 years. Even while I was working in the NY Aquarium, they constantly did research and either upgraded systems or completely changed them.
My reason for upgrading to a 180 was more error on my part than anything. If I would have just bought a 120 instead of a 90 when I moved into my house, I would still have a 120. I hated the dimentions of the 90 and a 30 gallon upgrade didn't seem worth it, so I bought the biggest tank I could for the space I have. Equipment upgrades will come as fast as the manufacturers put it out. Look at the money we've spent so far. We are financing better research and better products.
As for our influence over eachother, when you see a guy who you percieve as having a better tank than you,(or someone you think knows more than you) you will lean towards their husbandry techniques and equipment. I know I would have spent a lot less money upgrading skimmers if I was on this site sooner. BTW, you are still not selling the BB to me.
Hopefully, as the site grows we can help prevent crazy upgrades and wasted money by helping people start off right, but any way you look at it, someone else is going to come up with better lighting, better skimmers, better....... and we're all going to want it.

 

[jhale]

me selling BB?

I thought Rich might have taken the sand out when he set up your tank again I don't consider BB an upgrade it's just a different form of husbandry.

the next big upgrade I'm waiting for is led lighting

 

[loismustdie]

John, the corals in my frag tank look great under LED's. The acros look awsome. I can't believe it. I may seriously have to consider doing the LED upgrade on my main display. This would of course be the Icecap system as opposed to my trailer park frag tank set up. Low heat, low electricity, awsome colors and polyp extension. I just really hope the cost is reasonable. You have to consider the reductions in electricity without running MH, which leads to the chiller.

 

[DRZL]

Andres :argue: Dave...lol

I know you havent said its bad but I have heard it called better, as in better growth, better colors, etc. I was talking to Rich at the swap and he mentioned he was getting better growth w/ the 2 part, but... I also remembered him saying before that his pH was low and that he never saw it affect anything, as well as running a single stage reactor and him saying he couldnt run his pH too low because it lowered the tank too much, as well as seeing no dolomite in his reactor.

All these things are little minuses for the CR that can be done away with easily, my point is that like any equipment youve got to use to its maximum efficiency and itll take care of everything. I see your point in electricity but 45W is what $4 a mth? its the laziness factor plus its dissolving coral skeletons to feed growing corals and that just makes too much sense.

BTW my pH in my little 36 running at 40ml was 8.1 low-8.3 high and that was in these past winter months whre more CO2 gets trapped

Pecan,
Sending PM

we have never said CR is a bad peice of equipment. Andres you know us already we dont do that. JUst dosing 2 part solutions is more cost efficent then using a CR. two buckets last me over a year and last rich and herman about 6 months. do you notice initial start of CR is around a higher price then just 179 dolalrs for a doser pump from aquamedic? maying for a canister of co2 and media can cost as much as making 10 buckets of 2 part. running 45 watts constantly with a recirculating moter vs a 4.5 watt moter every day that only comes on for a second? co2 going into the water lowers the amount of cacification state, i cant prove this to everyone, but at higher PH calcification does happen more reapidly. steve is a example with a CR never really grew that quickly, then all of a sudden adding a kalk reactor to drive the co2 out of the water extremly helped the growth. almost insane; rich is using it and he turned off his reactor because this stuff works for him as well. herman, me and ctx also is dosing this stuff.

 

[spykes]

Andres :argue: Dave...lol

I know you havent said its bad but I have heard it called better, as in better growth, better colors, etc. I was talking to Rich at the swap and he mentioned he was getting better growth w/ the 2 part, but... I also remembered him saying before that his pH was low and that he never saw it affect anything, as well as running a single stage reactor and him saying he couldnt run his pH too low because it lowered the tank too much, as well as seeing no dolomite in his reactor.

All these things are little minuses for the CR that can be done away with easily, my point is that like any equipment youve got to use to its maximum efficiency and itll take care of everything. I see your point in electricity but 45W is what $4 a mth? its the laziness factor plus its dissolving coral skeletons to feed growing corals and that just makes too much sense.

BTW my pH in my little 36 running at 40ml was 8.1 low-8.3 high and that was in these past winter months whre more CO2 gets trapped

Pecan,
Sending PM

you have to see it this way there are little advantages to 2 part if done right, but it's also very diffrent from what works for someone and what doesnt. You have to realize dissolving coral skelton and sending it to the tank works, but coral skelton also have po4 and entrapped as well, and 2 part doesnt have anything impure compare to what was consumed by the previous corals. lowering PH well corals wont like the fact that your sending breaking down itself as well. im sure higher PH and lower Co2 saturation in the water promotes growth. Just dissolving corals afterwards still have free co2 in the tank, which promotes plant growth as well as dissolving skelton. co2 saturation in water lowers the amount of o2 in the water as well. using kalk will transform the co2 into carbonate as well as freeing the calcium from the hydroxide. if i would use calcium reactor kalk is a must have. Just i find it so much simplier using 2 part, when corals are consuming more and cant keep up, simply push up the number instead of readjusting regulator and the lazyness factor counts into 2 part as well. what is more pure then sending out complete sodium bicarbonate and calcium chloride?

 

[DRZL]

pure substance perhaps but wheres your trace elements? 100%WC? if corals are pulling all the calcium, mag, and alk out of solution you can bet they are doing so w/ trace elements. Another thing is any good skimmer can blow out the CO2 in your tank while infusing the 02, dual chambers adds to that and effluent positioning does too. I *think* that the amount of leftover CO2 is negligable to algae growth after the things I mentioned before.
As for Phos that may be true, but the answer is in the question, if its there its obvious corals consume it. So why worry if there is some phos in the media, its useful. I know thats a heated debate, like nitrates in a SPS tank, and better left for another thread but I think Phos can be useful in growth, especially at higher temps (80-84)

Like you said its different and thats great, theres more than one way to skin a cat, but if someone w/ a CR is using a dull knife so to speak, of course it will seem useless. Its not the knife's fault its dull, its got potential

God I hope no PETA heads are reading :p

 

[spykes]

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Element[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] Dow Solid[/FONT] [FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]
Aluminum[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] 0.011 [/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Arsenic[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] < 0.03[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Barium[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] 0.03[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Beryllium[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] 0.00008[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Boron[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] 1.0[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Cadmium[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] < 0.001[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Cobalt[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] < 0.006[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Copper[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] < 0.001[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Chromium[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] 0.002[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Lead[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] < 0.03[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Lithium[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] 2.2[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Magnesium[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] 0.6[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Manganese[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] 0.001[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Molybdenum[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] < 0.006[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Nickel[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] < 0.006[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Phosphorus[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] < 0.01[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Potassium[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] 210[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Selenium[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] < 0.03[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Silicon[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] 0.08[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Sodium[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] 60[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Strontium[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] 29[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Vanadium[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] < 0.001[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Zinc[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] 0.002[/FONT]

 

[spykes]

blow of co2 with o2? skimmer does not do that, because we are talking about dissolved oxygen and dissolved co2 levels. Only plants and photosynthsis can do that IMO. because of our salinity there is a max saturation level. lowering po4 with iron oxide as what randy H said, it also frees up the ferric molecule, which causes heavy metal saturation, melev has already asked that if he use a OFO on the output of the media if it's possible. Answer from randy was what i stated. Another thing, do you think they use coral skelton or snail shells, they use argranite that has been in limestone for ages. These are not skelton of corals, but aged long time rocks that been sheeding off by nature. diffrent sources for diffrent media has a diffrent desolve level. that's why your ph has to be lower or higher.
dow and mag flakes has high level of potassium and magnesum. stronium also included. i think inorganic phosphate is what your looking for, this can be substrated for ATP.

See reasons like this causes major diffrence in this hobby, cosntantly new ways to suppliment your corals growth and what becomes more efficent.

 

[spykes]

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Table 3. Elements added in 1 year as a percentage of that present in natural seawater.[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Element[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]
Dow Solid[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] Kent Liquid[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] Kent Solid[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] ESV Solid[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] Warner Liquid[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] Koralith CaCO3[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Boron[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] 23[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] 0.4[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] 0.9[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] 18[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] 23[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] < 0.1[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Lithium[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] 1200[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] < 3[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] < 3[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] 1200[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] 1100[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] < 0.5[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Magnesium[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] 0.05[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] 0.02[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] 0.08[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] 0.02[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] 0.03[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] 1[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Potassium[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] 53[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] 0.01[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] 0.001[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] 53[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] 48[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] < 0.02[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Sodium[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] 0.6[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] 0.02[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] 0.01[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] 0.5[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] 0.4[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] 0.001[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Strontium[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] 360[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] 13[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] 14[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] 400[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] 230[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] 10

CALCIUM REACTOR HAS THE LOWEST AMOUTN OF TRACE MINTERAL.
[/FONT]

 

[herman]

You two are Dorks man!!! . As long as it works, its good.

Most importantly, Which ever way you use, is the best way for you thats why you do what you do. Otherwise you would be doing something else and not doing what you are doing.

And dont forget: WE IS EXPERTS

Stop upgrading and adding??? NEVER!

 

[Pseudo]

Have you ever bought so much equipment that you cant fit it under your tank and no where else to put it ?? I think I may have over done it with the equipment purchases and I am not even finished yet. But I will not have to upgrade ever...

Buying something new however is up to how bored I might get..

Kasei

We is experts !!:chefico:

 

[inkblue]

:frown: i juSs wiSh some of tHese things were taX-deductabLe

 

[masterswimmer]

You two are Dorks man!!! . As long as it works, its good.

Most importantly, Which ever way you use, is the best way for you thats why you do what you do. Otherwise you would be doing something else and not doing what you are doing.

And dont forget: WE IS EXPERTS

Stop upgrading and adding??? NEVER!

:funnypost Can I be included in EXPERTS too Herman? Please! :division:

master

 

[pecan2phat]

:frown: i juSs wiSh some of tHese things were taX-deductabLe

Ink,
You can "tax deduct" it , just don't get audited! :shhh: