Relation between Puffer and urchin

[veronique]

We all the time talk about the relation of clown and anemone for defense but not about the puffer.

I spent some time watching them on the indian ocean and discovered how they do to refill in poison.
There is this big black urchin with long spikes very poisonous (don't know the name but could find it) his sting is very painfull (unfortunately got stung many times, they were plenty were I use to catch my fish, it's worse than a waspe sting and the pain last for a long time), anyway our friend the puffer just come and bite the end of the spikes, it drives the urchin crazy, but the puffer continue until he has his amount of poison.

I took some in my tank and they continue doing it.

So question is it just the puffer, do the boxfish do the same?

 

[Deanos]

Many puffers eat urchins as part of their diet. I'm not sure they transfer the poison to their own organs. I'll have to find the article I read which details how puffers create their poison. :headache:

 

[Deanos]

Puffers

Excerpt: Puffer fish toxin is called tetrodotoxin, or more precisely anhydrotetrodotoxin 4-epitetrodotoxin. It is also found within other animals such as the Blue-Ringed Octopus, Cone Snail, and in certain varieties of newt. Tetrodotoxin is produced within the puffer fish by bacteria, which are acquired through food. This means that puffer fish raised in captivity do not contain tetrodotoxin, and therefore are not poisonous until they come into contact with the bacteria.

 

[Deanos]

So unless the urchin you've seen, contains this bacteria, it's likely the puffer was just enjoying a meal.

 

[veronique]

I like my theory better, the species of urchins that I am talking about are the Diadema savignyi and Diadema setosum, I know they are toxic, but havn't find yet which toxine.
If it's just a meal for our puffer, it's a meal full of toxine, don't you think it could be related?

 

[drunktank]

its highly unlikely that the puffer is able to take the toxin from the urchin. We are talking about two different speicies and two different toxins. With puffers, they often have to grind down their teeth. He was probably just crunching on the spines hard skeleton to wear down his teeth. The puffer could also have been cutting it down to flip it and eat it from under (which is how they eat)

The ocean is a mysterious place and lots of thhings are unknown, but i dont believe what you saw and conclude are related. Even thou the urchin is full of toxins, doesnt mean its leathal to the puffer. Many species are immune to the toxins of others. Take of instant a bagger which can survive a lethal dose of scorpion toxin and still get his snack

 

[Chiefmcfuz]

Relationship between puffer fish and sea urchin is simple.

Predator - Prey

 

[ezee]

Hi all,

I agree with what has been stated here. On a related note, there are many species that derive toxins and other compounds/organic materials from ingested organisms and incorporate them into their own bodies. Nudibranches are well known for this, for example.

E

 

[DonCisco]

In Vero's defense, I think that she made an empyrical observation. And I am sure that a lot of us would have made a similar conclusion. I know that if I eat beans.... I produce plenty of toxins, lol.

 

[Aqua Pro Builder]

In Vero's defense, I think that she made an empyrical observation. And I am sure that a lot of us would have made a similar conclusion. I know that if I eat beans.... I produce plenty of toxins, lol.

LOL:tongue1:

 

[masterswimmer]

I know that if I eat beans.... I produce plenty of toxins, lol.

:smash:

 

[Chiefmcfuz]

:lol2: Don, I think we all produce them!

 

[veronique]

OK guys ''je vois que vous ne faites pas dans la dentelle'', I'm dropping right now my pretty but non workable theory.
I have seen surfing a bit the web that people seems to have hard time with anemone, I had two undestructible one (one big carpet who ate a big powder blue in front of my eyes, than spitted the bones) and another one perhaps heteractis magnifica I'm not sure, but both were agressive eater and last 5 years.

I just got an heteractis crispa, it's 10 days I have it, looks good, but I havn't seen her actually eat anything, I'm not sure she even take the food that the clown brought her.
So any advice and knowledge about this anemone will be welcome.
Thanks
Vero

 

[Chiefmcfuz]

Get some silversides (frozen) and thaw one out and feed it to the anemone and see if it eats it.

 

[masterswimmer]

Get some silversides (frozen) and thaw one out and feed it to the anemone and see if it eats it.

I agree with Chief. Also, it seems your tank is relatively new. It's possible that the addtion of an anemone so early is not appropriate yet. A mature tank is normally required to house an anemone. It might be stressed.

swimmer

 

[Deanos]

FYI: your anemone question may not get the attention it warrants with the title of the thread discussing pufferfishes & urchins. Feel free to start another thread.