- Location
- Nueva York
I think the book club is a good idea because that way the more we read, the more members will be on the same page.
MR Book Club
- Thread starter LeslieS
- Start date
Learning new things for the beginners and clarifying things that advanced hobbyists already know. For myself, I tend to skip the difficult parts. This will force me to read them in order to participate.
I don't know.
Both. But not at the same time. Some people will be more interested in certain books or parts of books than others. If we do a book on system design first, we should do a book on organism husbandry or chemistry next.
That sounds good.
I think we should just start the thread at the beginning of the week and people can post all week long. At the end of the week, we start the next chapter thread.
Anyone else have ideas?
- Location
- Nueva York
It would be cool if we could have like a get together after each book.... or is that tacky? lol
- Location
- Upper East Side
Thought sounds excellent Leslie
- Location
- Overland Park, KS
I love the idea of a thread on a chapter a week. I also like the idea of starting with organism husbandry and then on to the technical stuff, as we first should know what they need, and then figure out how to provide it to them!
- Location
- Upper East Side
As another suggestion for book 'types", it would be nice to read a book on the biology of corals reefs in the ocean. Discussion could center around the way to have or have not reproduced the natural environment in our living rooms.
As a separate suggestion, we could also do articles from "good" sources like the advanced aquarist - between 1 -3 related articles in a week w/ discussion.
As a separate suggestion, we could also do articles from "good" sources like the advanced aquarist - between 1 -3 related articles in a week w/ discussion.
What, no organic chemistry books? I loved organic chem. Does this also eliminate books like Moby Dick, The Perfect Storm, or Mutiny on the Bounty? What about classic videos like Flipper (I always liked flipper better than Lassie)?? What about poetry, is that out as well? Can we at least use Pirates of the Caribbean (maybe just the first film as I never saw it, and so I was pretty confused sitting through the second)?:tongueani
Husbandry is going to have to include some technology so we can see how our interactions affect our animals' lives. Somehow, though, I keep coming back to Fenner's Conscientious Aquariast as a good blend to start with, and a solid introduction before something as substantial as The Reef Aquarium III.
Henry
Reading this thread I am unsure. I am puzzeled in two ways: the motivation and the result.
My concept of a book club is a group of people who are enthusastic about reading the same kind of stories and like to discuss writing style, plot, character developement. Members feel included and their comments are welcome.
Having the goal of the book club be to educate the stupid loud mouth beginners who haven't read any books... One, it seems unlikely that the target group will have interest in reading a book and that they will generally feel unwelcomed to contribute. Two, the negative energy being set forth will certainly add to the general failure.
I think it is a good to think about what the people, who are presently in the group, are excited about reading, and topics that they are able to comment on and discuss.
As far as me joining- I have concerns of joining a club that is reading something very techie and having absolutely nothing to say in a book club about it. "i agree" , "I disagree"(= no no cant say that!) End of contribution... I may be too ignorant about what there is to discuss, and maybe there is plenty. But I fear it would serve more as a reading list of books that I should read on my own.
I have The Reef Aquarium Vol 1,2,3. I am not sure I have much to say about them. To me, they are like text books. But I guess, I look forward to seeing what drama others can find to discuss about it . I dont feel that I have anything to offer, be engauged about, or feel included.
Today I spent the day reading:
http://reefkeeping.com/ Tank of the month articals. It was interesting to compare the different tanks, different approaches, different design styles. Then compare it to a tank I found less successful in those catagories and think about why that may be the case. Often these are freely accessable on the web (low cost
) Education and discussion on why a particular tank set up is less successful would be enthralling.
Or select a particular professional tank designer (or compare two) (or how that designer does it differently from text book) who has put out a book/articals and talk about that persons method and design style. (I know that there are several that I read about in FW- there must be ones in reef) Comparisons offer compelling drama.
or I would be interested in reading a book about global environmental issues effecting reefs and reading things that we could do in our everyday life to affect change. That would offer lots of discussion about socail activism.
Or if the interest is in text book types- take two different books with sections on hubandry and compare and discuss the different approaches.
my .02
.
My concept of a book club is a group of people who are enthusastic about reading the same kind of stories and like to discuss writing style, plot, character developement. Members feel included and their comments are welcome.
Having the goal of the book club be to educate the stupid loud mouth beginners who haven't read any books... One, it seems unlikely that the target group will have interest in reading a book and that they will generally feel unwelcomed to contribute. Two, the negative energy being set forth will certainly add to the general failure.
I think it is a good to think about what the people, who are presently in the group, are excited about reading, and topics that they are able to comment on and discuss.
As far as me joining- I have concerns of joining a club that is reading something very techie and having absolutely nothing to say in a book club about it. "i agree" , "I disagree"(= no no cant say that!) End of contribution... I may be too ignorant about what there is to discuss, and maybe there is plenty. But I fear it would serve more as a reading list of books that I should read on my own.
I have The Reef Aquarium Vol 1,2,3. I am not sure I have much to say about them. To me, they are like text books. But I guess, I look forward to seeing what drama others can find to discuss about it . I dont feel that I have anything to offer, be engauged about, or feel included.
Today I spent the day reading:
http://reefkeeping.com/ Tank of the month articals. It was interesting to compare the different tanks, different approaches, different design styles. Then compare it to a tank I found less successful in those catagories and think about why that may be the case. Often these are freely accessable on the web (low cost
) Education and discussion on why a particular tank set up is less successful would be enthralling.Or select a particular professional tank designer (or compare two) (or how that designer does it differently from text book) who has put out a book/articals and talk about that persons method and design style. (I know that there are several that I read about in FW- there must be ones in reef) Comparisons offer compelling drama.
or I would be interested in reading a book about global environmental issues effecting reefs and reading things that we could do in our everyday life to affect change. That would offer lots of discussion about socail activism.
Or if the interest is in text book types- take two different books with sections on hubandry and compare and discuss the different approaches.
my .02
.
These are good ideas once we try out something simpler first.
The book club is just a bunch of members who want to learn together.
At the very least, the people who don't understand certain chapters will know that others have read them as well and be able to ask questions. That will be me!!!
Oh Yeah...a get together after each book is a cool idea. I'll host the first one
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Sounds good Leslie. I think in education today, the introduction of learning from a distance, relying on texts and online discussions has demonstrated itself to be a useful tool (models are college and up). Many universities are posting entire courses, with lecture notes, short exams, a list of books selected, discussion boards, and even complete audio lectures on line for free. No, you can't get credit without enrollment, but it still provides a method for shared learning and knowledge (also hopefully attracting more students to apply for matriculation, but there's nothing wrong with such "marketing" as it is hardly in your face).
I believe in the course of reviewing topics within a framework, controlled by having every one on the same page (chapter), the goal is an opportunity to hear from those with experience in applying "theory" to practice. No, this might not serve a beginner who hasn't even entertained the thought of reading a book on reef aquaria and feels confidant that because his tang lasted 2 months in a 20g tank, believing it's a great achievement , they know all about caring for their tank's inhabitants. But I really think that's the norm. In reading through a discussion encompassing a great deal of information in a logical sequence within one thread would be an incredible tool, in organizing their thoughts, even if they're not actively participating , but reading along with the recommended books as well as from those with the experience.
It also becomes a tremendous resource down the road for a beginner to an advanced SW keeper to refer back to when deciding what to read and what other skilled reefers think about a concept, different approaches to husbandry, and choices in equipment and methods. Six months from now, a visitor here will find a place to educate themselves with a depth not typically found in random articles or just searching for threads on their particular question or problem of the day. It teaches what questions to ask, not focus strictly on a single issue, in isolation from the entire concept of maintaining a healthy environment and the interaction of so many variables to achieve that goal.
At worst, it makes us all read respected books. At best, we learn even more as experience is shared in a structured environment, rather than scattered threads.
These are just my thoughts.
Henry
I believe in the course of reviewing topics within a framework, controlled by having every one on the same page (chapter), the goal is an opportunity to hear from those with experience in applying "theory" to practice. No, this might not serve a beginner who hasn't even entertained the thought of reading a book on reef aquaria and feels confidant that because his tang lasted 2 months in a 20g tank, believing it's a great achievement , they know all about caring for their tank's inhabitants. But I really think that's the norm. In reading through a discussion encompassing a great deal of information in a logical sequence within one thread would be an incredible tool, in organizing their thoughts, even if they're not actively participating , but reading along with the recommended books as well as from those with the experience.
It also becomes a tremendous resource down the road for a beginner to an advanced SW keeper to refer back to when deciding what to read and what other skilled reefers think about a concept, different approaches to husbandry, and choices in equipment and methods. Six months from now, a visitor here will find a place to educate themselves with a depth not typically found in random articles or just searching for threads on their particular question or problem of the day. It teaches what questions to ask, not focus strictly on a single issue, in isolation from the entire concept of maintaining a healthy environment and the interaction of so many variables to achieve that goal.
At worst, it makes us all read respected books. At best, we learn even more as experience is shared in a structured environment, rather than scattered threads.
These are just my thoughts.
Henry
MightyMike
Member
- Location
- Jersey City
Perhaps if folks are hesistant about reading the Reef Vol 3, those who have it might lend it to those hesitant, for a better appraisal? If you're worried about dropping $60+ on something that might be over your (my?) head, it might be easier to make the decision if one could flip through it first? thoughts? My fiancee takes a few courses online through the New School and she loves it, I'm excited to sort of do the same. I'd also take a starter stab at the Fenner bookl; but maybe this thread needs a poll for book selection? or is that a bad idea?
I need a "chomping at the bit" smiley :Lurking: I also agree that worst case scenario we end up with more great books and maybe getting to know more folks from the site ... could be worse
I need a "chomping at the bit" smiley :Lurking: I also agree that worst case scenario we end up with more great books and maybe getting to know more folks from the site ... could be worse
- Location
- Montclair, NJ
I hate to be "that guy" but I am open to do anything. My interest in the book club is to meet other members and learn more about keeping a reef in the home aquaria. I have a rather unorthodox "reef" and I am sure others have different experience with different types of corals and fish that would be a lot of fun to share.
I like the idea of reading a text type book and discussing the chapter with each other and sharing experiences related with its contents. Starting with a book focused on the home aquaria and eventual moving on to study the oceanic environment seems like a good way to get people interested. Ideally, learning about the natural environment of reefs and then moving on to the home aquaria is probably best (IMO) but I am not sure most people in this hobby really think about the natural reef... they just want a beautiful tank. I am not one of those but I think most "newbies" see a beautiful fish in a store or in someone's home and they can't help themselves but to want the same. I am definately guilty of this as 18 years ago I saw a beautiful Nurse shark and I wanted it so bad it prompted me to try a hand with a marine aquarium. Luckily for me, I had the sense not to buy the nurse shark and tried a tank with less expensive fish first.
I think as people come to appreciate what it takes to keep a healthy reef ecosystem in a home aquaria, they will grow a respect for the reef in general (hopefully) and will be more open to advancing the studies to the oceanic environment.
Sadly (for me that is), I never bought a nurse shark and I never will!!! Just deams
I like the idea of reading a text type book and discussing the chapter with each other and sharing experiences related with its contents. Starting with a book focused on the home aquaria and eventual moving on to study the oceanic environment seems like a good way to get people interested. Ideally, learning about the natural environment of reefs and then moving on to the home aquaria is probably best (IMO) but I am not sure most people in this hobby really think about the natural reef... they just want a beautiful tank. I am not one of those but I think most "newbies" see a beautiful fish in a store or in someone's home and they can't help themselves but to want the same. I am definately guilty of this as 18 years ago I saw a beautiful Nurse shark and I wanted it so bad it prompted me to try a hand with a marine aquarium. Luckily for me, I had the sense not to buy the nurse shark and tried a tank with less expensive fish first.
I think as people come to appreciate what it takes to keep a healthy reef ecosystem in a home aquaria, they will grow a respect for the reef in general (hopefully) and will be more open to advancing the studies to the oceanic environment.
Sadly (for me that is), I never bought a nurse shark and I never will!!! Just deams
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- Location
- Franklin Lakes, NJ
This is not the goal... those people already know it all. The goal is to get people that do want to learn more involved and educated. There is plenty to discuss about every book I've read on reefs and this provides a chance to do so.
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- Location
- Upper East Side
I totally agree.
And Sarah, I don't think the goal of the book club is to "educate the stupid". As we've seen on many threads here, there are lots of ways of doing things. People say, "THAT CAN'T BE DONE" and then lo and behold someone shows up who has been doing things just that way for years and been very successful. I think the goal of the book club is to:
a) share ideas/experiences
b) learn more about reefs/reefkeeping
c) meet other reefers in the area.
People who are beginners can ask questions about the parts of the books they're having trouble understanding. People who are more advanced can discuss the methods proposed in the text in a more concrete way.
The only people I would ever classify as "stupid" are those who are unwilling to learn. All others are just inexperienced.
I am a very inexperienced reefkeeper who hasn't read any of the books that have been mentioned, with the exceptions of a few paragraphs here and there in the books that Eric has. Personally, what I derive from the whole idea of the book club is that I will be accountable to a group of people for "doing my homework". Nothing spurs me to actually do something than telling a group of people that I will.
As far as articles go, I generally prefer the advanced aquarist over Reefkeeping because the articles are slightly more scientifically oriented. (Though that is probably due to my background in science. ) I love reading the articles about the various "Tanks of the Month" because I love looking at beautiful reeftanks and it's interesting to see the techniques that these highly successful reefkeepers follow. However, if you start looking at a lot of them, they all kind of start to look the same, and most people who are successful do pretty much the same kinds of things to be successful. From a personal standpoint, I'm less interested in the aesthetics of tanks but more the reasons why we do what we do makes them beautiful. Understanding the mechanisms behind something ultimately gives a person a lot more freedom to think outside the box and create something truly extraordinary.
Okay, that was my waaaaaay more than $0.02.
OH goodie! I glad it has possitive energy to it. That feels good :flower:
I guess I read this comment and connected it to some harsh bashing on threads Ive read and felt skittish:
I guess I read this comment and connected it to some harsh bashing on threads Ive read and felt skittish:
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