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Grumpy Vet

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Hi all.

I thought perhaps I could help everyone out a little bit by consolidating all information on the southdown sand situation w/ Home Depot.

The reason I do this - it keeps popping up - but not the whole story - so after a couple phone calls, a few HD trips and some research here we go:

Southdown tropical play sand is the new thing in reef beds. Why? A study was done and found that this sand has a "perfect" mixture of particulate size for DSBs. Don't ask me - I use CC and am intent on killing my fish. I got some for my seahorse tank and refugium.

Ok - now who can get it? Unfortunately it is only available from Home Depot in the Northeast. Southdown is (was) a regional company from Pennsylvania. Last year in Oct/Nov they were purchased by a company called Cemex. This is a company based in Mexico that "financial investors" believe will be restructuring to concentrate solely on Cement products and may severely decrease or stop the ancillary products of lime and sand Southdown does or did manufacture.

What does this mean? According to Home Depot - they are having more and more problems getting Southdown Sand. My feeling - get it while you can - as it may not be around in the near future. Conjecture solely - but certainly possible.

So - if a company like Home Depot is having problems getting a product - what do they do? They find another source. Home Depot has done that.

Caveat Reefer

The SKU for Southdown play sand is 578-819. This is a universal SKU for 2 different vendors of play sand. The other supplier is NOT Southdown and looks strikingly different. If you read nothing else - read this -

Do Not Order Southdown Playsand w/ this SKU or description and Expect to get Southdown.....The manufacturer will vary and needs to be physically checked by you or the HD guy.

To help things along if you call Home Depot or go there the product is found in one of two places. It is found by the lumber or in the Garden Center. The Garden Center manager is who does the ordering and that is "division" or "section" 28 (Garden).

Some Home Depots will consider doing transfers of this product. I made some calls and found that they will charge a customer $35 for a "stock transfer" regardless of 2 bags or 1 skid. The problem is getting them to make good on this or getting them to actually get it done. I have read several threads where getting HD to actually do the transfer was an exercise in futility. To my knowledge it has not been done successfully yet. This is probably due to the managers getting paid on turn and earn (low inventory) and the lack of profit from a bag of sand.

So that is what I have to report all...If you have any questions - ask away.......and to prove I know of what I speak....I offer up my very significant investment purchased today -

southdown.jpg
 
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Anonymous

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Thank you, Grumpy. I might have to get out there and get some this weekend. Cheer up
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Anonymous

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southdown.jpg


500 pounds of Southdown waiting for my 300 gallon refugium....Priceless
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skylsdale

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Yeah Guy, not at good idea to tease us Northwesterners. I actually talked to someone who works at HD the other day and said I was looking for a sand that is made on the east coast. Told her I had gone to another store and asked about the stuff, where the only reply to my questions was: "We get our sand from Portland." She said there should be no problem transferring the sand, and gave me the name and number of a guy to talk to who would get the job done. You'd think this would be GREAT news, but since I won't be able to really get my "ultimate" reeftank going for another year or two, I'm somewhat up a creek...
By the way Guy, that's one of the best aquascaping jobs I've seen in a long time.


Grumpy:
How does that sand work in your seahorse tank and refugium? Did the changeover go well?
 

Grumpy Vet

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When I went to bed last night both tanks looked like they were filled w/ 2% skim milk.

This morning - no problemo. I will need to pick up some live sand this weekend and we should be good to go. Looks really nice now - not sure how I will like the "all scuzzed up look" in several months - but if it helps the critters - so be it.

GV
 

yznhmr

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if you order it from home depot ( i called the one listed above on the reciept)and have it shipped Roadway Express i priced 15 bags on a pallet ,the shipping alone is $346, plus the $ 60 for the sand , it is about $ 23 per bag doing it that way...
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hectina

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Guy, posting a picture like that is a good way to get assasinated by someone who doesn't live in the Northeast.
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fishfarmer

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Folks may be able to get a non HD stores to purchase a pallet or two from Southdown direct. I went to a chain garden store recently and sure enough they had half a pallet(location to remain a closely guarded secret
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yznhmr

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FYI I called every store in Ohio, And most in Indiana, they dont have it only "Best Sand" so dont waste you time calling i already did...
 

Grumpy Vet

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I do have additional information available.

What is listed below comes from goby on the ReefCentral boards over a year ago. When you see first person - it is him speaking - not Grumpy. I just cut and pasted a bunch of threads together so it made sense even out of context. Then I just looked up a few addresses....and you now have the information of the company that sells the sand to Southdown who sells it to HomeDepot who sells it to Northeastern Reefers.

_____________________________

This sand is shipped to southdown from Marcona Ocean Industries which is out of Ft. Pierce Florida. They sell to both Southdown, AND Carib-Sea. (they also sell to Martin Marrieta in jacksonville, among others). Marcona Ocean Industries, the company that mines the stuff, does so in the carribean, and has a special agreement with carib-sea. They have a sort of "noncompete" agreement that says that they will not sell sand to anyone doing reefs. Kinda like panasonic selling its 36" pc bulbs only to custom sealife. Same type deal. anyways, marcona sells to Southdown, Inc. and I am sure that they have told Southdown what the scoop is. (and Southdown probably told HD).

How do I know this? I spent ALOT of time researching it last year, and actually talked to the plant manager at Marcona. Nice guy, I talked to him for a while, and he eventually asked what it was for.,.. I said...."uh.... not for fishtanks???" and he said "right answer" and then proceded to tell me all this stuff. The one thing that he did warn about was to NEVER EVER mention that you would be using it for aquarium use. Glad I had been thru this already with panasonic trying to get cheap PCs.
Thread


I contacted Marcona, and the deal is that they usually only sell in bulk. What is bulk you may ask? 100tons. I have worked out a deal with the plant supervisor at marcona to get a truckload (pickup truck - about 1 ton) of oolithic sand (washed dried and sifted) for about $20.00 I have also worked it out to get a truckload from jacksonville of the non strained variety (full of shells and stuff).

All of this comes from a cay in the bahamas where Marcona has a 24/7 mining operation and fills a boat that has a 3000ton/hr conveyer! (big boat) anyways, they WILL NOT SELL IT TO YOU if you even mention the words: fish, aquarium, tank, reef, saltwater, etc. They WILL sell it to you if you tell them its for your shrubs in your front yard and that you have used it before lots of times and that you are sure that this what you want. The key here is that you have to make a trip to either Ft. Pierce or Jacksonville, FL Monday - Friday 7am-4pm. Thats it, no alternatives. I am thinking about doing it soon, but have to take time off work... i will try and post here if i do get it, just to fill everyone in.

Give them a call - tell them you want it for your bushes. They will sell it to you.. but you have to shovel it yourself.. (the smallest front end loader they have carries 5 yards )

________________

Thanks to goby for all that work a year ago! Here is how to get in touch w/ Marcona

Marcona Ocean Industries
20 Avenue M
Fort Pierce, FL 34952
561-464-1836

4018 Retford Dr
Jacksonville, FL 32225
904-646-3595

There you go Southern Reefers - have at it. Appreciation for my dilligence, hardwork & effort can be sent in the form of frags.

GV
 
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Anonymous

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Grumpy Vet:
<STRONG>This sand is shipped to southdown from Marcona Ocean Industries which is out of Ft. Pierce Florida. They sell to both Southdown, AND Carib-Sea. (they also sell to Martin Marrieta in jacksonville, among others). Marcona Ocean Industries, the company that mines the stuff, does so in the carribean, and has a special agreement with carib-sea. They have a sort of "noncompete" agreement that says that they will not sell sand to anyone doing reefs</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Is this legal? It sounds like price-fixing to me...

Any lawyers out there want to clarify?
 

whirley

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DANG IT! Still can't find any SD sand here
in Chicago. We've called all over the place.

Asked Premium Aquatics if they had any, and
they said that they have been trying to get it for the last two months!

HD around here has none.

Are we just out of luck? Will the
SD sand gods be generous to us, and
show us the way?!

whirley
 

Grumpy Vet

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Well according to what I read and all the research I have done.....

Just tell Jason @ PA to order some directly from the manufacturer.....

All he needs is a small order for 100 tons.

GV
 

yznhmr

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YES WHIRLEY AND I HAVE TRIED TO GET THE *^%( SD SAND, I have called all the home depots between Chicago and Ohio, i found 500 bags of it in Balt MD any one want to drive to MD?lol, im trying to work a deal for HD to ship it to my office..lol we will c.. any other sugestions..?
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whirley

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Grumpy Vet

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I'm glad people got some good information out of this. That makes me happy. Some of this information will be very slightly redundant - but is a compilation of several boards' information - pls forgive my not wanting to type this 4 different ways.

It sounds as if the transferring is possible - but will require some real effort and some luck to find the right person to do it. I do subscribe to about 4 boards and have heard of 5 cases so far reported of getting sand transferred out of the Northeast - It has ranged in cost from no extra charges to $100 plus freight, plus cost of product. Nice parity there in policy Home Depot...sheesh...

Two cases reported of people ordering by SKU and getting the "non Southdown" play sand.....remember to have them check for Southdown style before transferring and ordering. I have also seen at least 20 people post they are S.O.L. Keep trying folks if you have the time and desire - looks like it is possible.

Southdown has been reportedly transferred from Northeast HD stores to Cincinnati, OH, Nashville, TN & Winston/Salem, NC. Anyone get it transferred from a HD farther west or south than these places?

It also seems, like I reported earlier, that the product is stocked only the Northeast (including New England). It is not stocked in every location by any stretch of the imagination. Several people did as I did and found that Southdown's SKU is not listed on the Home Depot website. I called and asked why. Apparently if it is not UPS"able" it does not go on the website.

During the conversation w/ Home Depot it turns out there are actually 5 manufacturers listed under this sku that make playsand for Home Depot NE region. The northeast region is defined as northern Virginia market over to Pennsylvania and into New England. If Southdown is at a store that is not in this area - it is a fluke.

The Home Depot policy according to the manager at customer service I talked to re: shipping Southdown between stores is "Get Bent". So - if you want it shipped to your local HD - polish up on your smooth talking, ask for a lady in the Garden Center and do your very best Barry White voice.......we got it together now baby.......

The manager suggested that if I really wanted Southdown - call them directly and pool an order. So I called Southdown. The number for Southdown Sales and Customer Service (located in Easton, PA) is 800-526-1753. The closest manufacturing plant to me is in Thomasville, PA (York, PA) and they do sell direct to the public in skid quantities and will even do a will call (pick-up).
They also have a plant in northwestern New Jersey:

1 Limecrest Rd
Lafayette, NJ 07848
(973) 383-2000

It was also suggested that LFS buy a few pallets and help their customers out. Southdown is trying very hard to send their sand to other markets - but as of yet - Home Depot being set up regionally - has "local vendors" and is not buying from them out of the NE region. Southdown confirmed that they only ship to HD stores above Northern Virginia. They don't even ship to HD stores in Virginia Beach or Richmond. The lady at Southdown was very nice and helpful. She said there are no plans as of now to discontinue the production of sand......who knows....

I have a call in to the sales guy at Easton (Dave Jackson) for a price quote (both pick/up and delivery). When I get this information - I will be happy to share it w/ everyone.

Toodles -

GV
 

spray

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Hello everyone, I'm new here and I'm trying to locate some Southdown like everyone else. I am going to be in the N.VA. area over 4th of July week and would like to know which Home depots in the area have the Southdown play sand.

I'm looking for 600 lbs.

Any help here would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks Scott
 

swreefer

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Just for the hell of it, I'm going to stop at the Home Depot up the road from work at lunchtime. I am in CT so there should be some available. I'll see how much, if any, I can get. If I can get some, I will sell it at cost plus shipping. It seems a lot of people want it and if I can get some it looks like that might help out some people. I'll keep you posted.
 
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Anonymous

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Yes that sand is very similar or the same as SD sand,but it is a dollar more a bag and only 40 lbs. a bag.

Dan
 

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