marillion,
sorry to hear about your loss, the same thing happened to me a couple days ago
, though not on such a large scale. I lost my jawfish and cleaner shrimp to 90 degree water. I got a fan from my room, placed it in front of the tank, cranked it up on high, and it dropped the temp 5 degrees(although the water was still a bit warm, it got the rest of the fish through the heatwave).
Again, sorry, and I hope you can solve the problem. Good luck.
sorry to hear about your loss, the same thing happened to me a couple days ago
Again, sorry, and I hope you can solve the problem. Good luck.
It really blows me away the amount of money people spend in this hobby and still miss the big picture. When you see that coral or that fish in the local fish store that you just can’t live with out, you spare no expense and buy it, right? Why don’t you people, before worrying about spending your money on fish, and corals take the necessary steps to ensure their survival by setting up a stable system? If you live in an area with high temps and plan on having a s/w tank, buy a chiller! We all know that these animals need consistency to survive and thrive. If you are not willing to buy, or able to afford, a chiller and you live in an area with high temps, like CA for instance, find another hobby! I really think it’s that simple. Why torture these animals? It may sound harsh but these guys that spend thousands of dollars on their setups and are running hoses from their sinks through their sumps, or freezing 1 liter pop bottles and putting them in their sumps have gotta be kidding. Get real guys, take the precautionary measures to provide a stable living environment for your animals, if this means preventing temp swings while your at work, or that one day you forgot to turn the air on before you left the house then buy the chiller. Sorry, to go off but I’m just tired of hearing guys on this site, and others sites as well, recommending running these systems without chillers and attempting to maintain water temps with these half ass, do it your self chillers! Instead of just buying one from the start!
Cory,
just my personal opinion, not a flame, but you are a jerk. This hobby is for everyone, not just rich people. If freezing a couple of bottles works, why the hell should we not do it?
I can afford a chiller, but don't have one. I bring the water temp down different ways. If that makes me cheap, fine.
Marillion, do whatever you have to do to get the water temp where you want it. This hobby is made up by more than just rich snobs.
Eddi
just my personal opinion, not a flame, but you are a jerk. This hobby is for everyone, not just rich people. If freezing a couple of bottles works, why the hell should we not do it?
I can afford a chiller, but don't have one. I bring the water temp down different ways. If that makes me cheap, fine.
Marillion, do whatever you have to do to get the water temp where you want it. This hobby is made up by more than just rich snobs.
Eddi
Cory
The avg temp in NY area on the high side is in the mid 80's and the over ninties we have had for oh 7-10 days is unreal and it doesn't suprise me that any one in this area wouldn't have a chiller as they realy aren't nessesary in a COLD part of the countryt were you may break 90 one or two days a year (end of Aug) and you spend alot of time frozen ( nov -apr ) thanx
ZT
The avg temp in NY area on the high side is in the mid 80's and the over ninties we have had for oh 7-10 days is unreal and it doesn't suprise me that any one in this area wouldn't have a chiller as they realy aren't nessesary in a COLD part of the countryt were you may break 90 one or two days a year (end of Aug) and you spend alot of time frozen ( nov -apr ) thanx
ZT
Guys,
Not tring to be a jerk and I may have come off a little harsh. I do agree that there are certian areas of the country where temps are such, that a chiller is not a practicle soultion. Point taken. But in saying that their are alot of areas that do reach plus 90deg and subsquently raise tanks temps, esp. when running VHO and metal halide lighting as many of us do with reef tanks these high tank temps are going to be something that should be considered upon setting up a system. When I started out in the hobby I too attempted these short term soultions, but I also found that I had more problems with loosing livestock, unwanted alge growth and an overall fustration of the hobbie. Not saying that a chiller solved all my problems but I really do feel that people look at them as someting that is not really nessary, and they really are an essential piece of equipment if you live in an area with +90 deg weather. Yes they are expensive I will not deny that, but this hobby is not something you should get into if you do not have the funds to support. How much do you have in your system? I bet it's more than you want to ammit. How long do you think it's going to be before you are burned out on trying to maintain tank temps. along with all the other things we have to do to keep these systems running sucessfully? What if you have to leave town for 2-3 days, will all be lost?
Not tring to be a jerk and I may have come off a little harsh. I do agree that there are certian areas of the country where temps are such, that a chiller is not a practicle soultion. Point taken. But in saying that their are alot of areas that do reach plus 90deg and subsquently raise tanks temps, esp. when running VHO and metal halide lighting as many of us do with reef tanks these high tank temps are going to be something that should be considered upon setting up a system. When I started out in the hobby I too attempted these short term soultions, but I also found that I had more problems with loosing livestock, unwanted alge growth and an overall fustration of the hobbie. Not saying that a chiller solved all my problems but I really do feel that people look at them as someting that is not really nessary, and they really are an essential piece of equipment if you live in an area with +90 deg weather. Yes they are expensive I will not deny that, but this hobby is not something you should get into if you do not have the funds to support. How much do you have in your system? I bet it's more than you want to ammit. How long do you think it's going to be before you are burned out on trying to maintain tank temps. along with all the other things we have to do to keep these systems running sucessfully? What if you have to leave town for 2-3 days, will all be lost?
Eddy,
Since your fist post on this topic was to call me a jerk, I will only say that you are right in the respect of the fact that this hobby is for everybody to enjoy. But when you enter into a hobby you should take precautionary measures. Would you also buy a puppy and lock it in you car at 90+ deg. and wonder why it died. No difference buddy. Who's the Jerk!
Since your fist post on this topic was to call me a jerk, I will only say that you are right in the respect of the fact that this hobby is for everybody to enjoy. But when you enter into a hobby you should take precautionary measures. Would you also buy a puppy and lock it in you car at 90+ deg. and wonder why it died. No difference buddy. Who's the Jerk!
I don't run a chiller on my 90 gal and I run 2x250 watt MH. A chiller is NOT the ONLY answer to maintaining a stable reef. The tank is located in a small bedroom with a ceiling fan that runs on high all the time and the air vent is located at the end of the tank so when the air is on it blows across the tank. I had to adjust the heater to keep the temp up. Also i built the boxes with an open top to vent heat from the MH (I'm cheap) and the lights sit 12" above the water so it doesn't heat the tank. And the tank is not covered. "There's more than one way to skin a cat"
I replied to this post beacuse I don't want a "newbie" to read this and think they HAVE to have a chiller then stroke out when they see the price and give up.
Jerry
[ August 10, 2001: Message edited by: arnjer ]
[ August 10, 2001: Message edited by: arnjer ]
I replied to this post beacuse I don't want a "newbie" to read this and think they HAVE to have a chiller then stroke out when they see the price and give up.
Jerry
[ August 10, 2001: Message edited by: arnjer ]
[ August 10, 2001: Message edited by: arnjer ]
Arnjer,
Never implied that a chiller was the only way to maintain a stable reef. You have done your homework prior to setting up your system, a ceiling fan over tank, open canopy and ac vent blowing over tank, all of these are good ideas that you as conscientious reefer took prior to setting up a system to avoid the cost of a chiller. You live in Memphis right, pretty humid there I understand and hot too right? Now let me ask you a question. If after all these precautionary measures you have taken you still had tank temps in the 90's would you consider buying a chiller or risk loosing your investment by putting frozen pop bottles in your sump. Be Honest.
Never implied that a chiller was the only way to maintain a stable reef. You have done your homework prior to setting up your system, a ceiling fan over tank, open canopy and ac vent blowing over tank, all of these are good ideas that you as conscientious reefer took prior to setting up a system to avoid the cost of a chiller. You live in Memphis right, pretty humid there I understand and hot too right? Now let me ask you a question. If after all these precautionary measures you have taken you still had tank temps in the 90's would you consider buying a chiller or risk loosing your investment by putting frozen pop bottles in your sump. Be Honest.
Marillion. I too found that with the glass hood the tank just gets too hot, but with no hood and a fan it hasn't gone above 85 which is good considering I run the tank at 82 in the summer. The downside is the evaporation, but I setup a drip bucket that is good for 2 days.
Yes it gets hot as hell here and yes humid also. If my tank got too hot I would do what I could. Honestly I would have to save for a $300.00 chiller....nothin I can do about that. Is it wrong that I have a tank and don't have funds to spend if needed....no. I don't have a sump but yes I would use frozen RO water in it to cool the tank. I tried to plan out how I would set this tank up, but sometimes "$h!T Happens" and we try to care for our tanks the best way we can. If money wasn't a problem then yes I would buy the best of everything. I see the point you are making and to a degree I agree with you. I wouldn't try to keep things that are not gonna make it in my tank, I have in the past in the early years. I think the point Marillon is trying to make is that we get frustrated sometimes regardless if it's our fault or not. We are all here to teach and encourage each other and continually learn how to take care of our reefs. And there are many ways of doing that. I think the heat wave in NY caught them off guard.
Jerry
[ August 10, 2001: Message edited by: arnjer ]
Jerry
[ August 10, 2001: Message edited by: arnjer ]
If I may, let me jump in here with a couple thoughts and comments. I went to school in Georgia and was stationed in southern California. I know how hot it gets.
Cory, you are 101% correct about buying expensive livestock and needing to act responsible about stepping up to buy a chiller. Messing around with soda bottles is pure Mickey Mouse if you live in the Sunbelt.
As for Chip and myself, we live in the Snowbelt. Yesterday by me in downtown Newark it hit an all time high of 105. This is not common for us. I know it gets a hell of a lot hotter in the Mojave. We just need something in a pinch to get us over a few days' heat wave.
Doing a cost benefit analysis would show that we may need a chiller for 7 days a year or less. Seriously, does it make sense for us to invest in a chiller? That is why we are talking about quick fixes. Living in the Southeast or Southwest, we would need 6 months (or more) solution like an appropriate powered chiller. Certainly not quick, Mickey Mouse solutions.
Now as far as heaters are concerned, we definately need plenty of those in this neck of the woods!!
Thanks for everybody's time.
JohnD
[ August 10, 2001: Message edited by: JohnD ]
Cory, you are 101% correct about buying expensive livestock and needing to act responsible about stepping up to buy a chiller. Messing around with soda bottles is pure Mickey Mouse if you live in the Sunbelt.
As for Chip and myself, we live in the Snowbelt. Yesterday by me in downtown Newark it hit an all time high of 105. This is not common for us. I know it gets a hell of a lot hotter in the Mojave. We just need something in a pinch to get us over a few days' heat wave.
Doing a cost benefit analysis would show that we may need a chiller for 7 days a year or less. Seriously, does it make sense for us to invest in a chiller? That is why we are talking about quick fixes. Living in the Southeast or Southwest, we would need 6 months (or more) solution like an appropriate powered chiller. Certainly not quick, Mickey Mouse solutions.
Now as far as heaters are concerned, we definately need plenty of those in this neck of the woods!!
Thanks for everybody's time.
JohnD
[ August 10, 2001: Message edited by: JohnD ]
Not to keep beating this topic up, and I am not pointing any fingers here. I have seen so many post on this site and other sites in regards chillers, and tanks over-heating and the problems that are associated with high temps. I know the majority of people can't afford a chiller and alot of people can get by with out them. It is just amazing to me that if you live in an area with fairly consintant temps around 90deg that chillers are not encouraged more, instead of being looked at like something a person with money to burn would buy, or something you would wait to buy when you have the extra money. If you live in colder area obviously you dont need a chiller. I live near the coast in Southern California and I run my ac 24/7, more my wifes doing than mine, and my chiller still kicks on 2 time an hour and our house is a steady 72 deg. which is pretty cold. So cold infact my electrical bill is out of hand "thanks honey". Yes I run halides and have a canapoy but I also have not lost any fish in the past two years and have never had any algee outbreaks, and do not have to worry about how hot it is out side. To me the chiller is worth it's weight in gold. If you are serious about your sucesses in this hobby and you want one less, very important, thing to worry about please look into a chiller for the well being of your investment.
Two things worth thinking about:
1. The main cost of the chiller is really the electricity consumed. If it can be avoided, it is best to do so both from an ecological standpoint as well as a budgetary one.
2. Using evaporation, rather than a chiller, to cool a tank necessitates using top-off water. This means fluctuating salinity and a gradual accumulation of compounds, inlcuding toxins, from the top-off water, unless you do large frequent partial water changes. This problem can be reduced but not eliminated by using deionized or RO water (the purification process is not perfect).
So in short each approach has its drawbacks. Probably the best approach is to air-condition the room and to build a canopy with proper ventilation, unlike what is normally commercially available. The top, for example, should be open or made of egg-crate or something, and fans should blow in to aid the hot air escape through the top (hot air naturally rises).
1. The main cost of the chiller is really the electricity consumed. If it can be avoided, it is best to do so both from an ecological standpoint as well as a budgetary one.
2. Using evaporation, rather than a chiller, to cool a tank necessitates using top-off water. This means fluctuating salinity and a gradual accumulation of compounds, inlcuding toxins, from the top-off water, unless you do large frequent partial water changes. This problem can be reduced but not eliminated by using deionized or RO water (the purification process is not perfect).
So in short each approach has its drawbacks. Probably the best approach is to air-condition the room and to build a canopy with proper ventilation, unlike what is normally commercially available. The top, for example, should be open or made of egg-crate or something, and fans should blow in to aid the hot air escape through the top (hot air naturally rises).
- Location
- Virginia
Thought I'd toss my hat in the ring. Cory, you do come off sounding kind of like a jerk (not saying you are one, just that you sounded like one) in your first post. You do make a valid point, though. However, the manner in which you expressed your opinion (I'm often guilty of the same thing) made it seem like you'd blame the people that died from the heat for living in areas where it could get really hot and not buying an air conditioner since it's feasible that they'd need it. Not that you said that, or even came close to it, but the way you presented your point made it seem as if a statement like that could flow very easily from your mouth.
Just my opinion, and I've done stuff like that before, so I think we should lay off a bit, he realizes he came off sounding like a jerk, so leave get on to the original problem, how do we deal with sudden heat waves if we don't have the $$ to buy a chiller?
Just my opinion, and I've done stuff like that before, so I think we should lay off a bit, he realizes he came off sounding like a jerk, so leave get on to the original problem, how do we deal with sudden heat waves if we don't have the $$ to buy a chiller?
I really feel bad for marillion. However, I agree with Cory in that we need to do our best to ensure the survival of our animals. This included make sure that they have the right environment. For animals that I can asexually prop, I make sure that I spread them around in my friend’s tank. I gave my good friends frags of my corals, knowing that if something happen to my tank, I can get a piece of it back. Heat can destroy a tank especially if one one a tank below 80 degree and it got over 90.
Marillion, good luck with your tank. Ventilation and evaporation can really help cool that tank. I would not restock your tank unless you can think of a way to deal with extreme temperature like this.
I used to live in Seattle where the temp rarely goes over 90 degree, and people got heat stroke at the temp of 92. When I was there, in the summer, I turn the light on at night, and off during the day. Fans and ventilation does the rest (window and the house fan, and several fans on the tank on during the day to lower the temp)
Marillion, good luck with your tank. Ventilation and evaporation can really help cool that tank. I would not restock your tank unless you can think of a way to deal with extreme temperature like this.
I used to live in Seattle where the temp rarely goes over 90 degree, and people got heat stroke at the temp of 92. When I was there, in the summer, I turn the light on at night, and off during the day. Fans and ventilation does the rest (window and the house fan, and several fans on the tank on during the day to lower the temp)
Cory,
if you categorize putting a puppy in a locked car in the summer with not having a chiller on your tank, you are way out of line. But I do apologize for calling you a jerk, I do not know the first thing about you.
You have a chiller, good for you. I do not have one, and I would like to point out that I have not lost a fish or a coral in over a year myself. There is more than one way to skin a cat.
Eddi
if you categorize putting a puppy in a locked car in the summer with not having a chiller on your tank, you are way out of line. But I do apologize for calling you a jerk, I do not know the first thing about you.
You have a chiller, good for you. I do not have one, and I would like to point out that I have not lost a fish or a coral in over a year myself. There is more than one way to skin a cat.
Eddi
Ok, have to jump in. This is not directed to anyone or meant to be a flame.
I live on Long Island in NY, the temps this week were 97-100F. I bought a chiller last month, and didn't sweat a thing this whole week, actually I hardly paid attention to the tank temp at all. Before this heat wave hit, I was doing everything to keep temps in the tank from rising higher than 85 with outside temps in the high 70' to mid eighties. I felt the high humidity in this area (north shore) made it very hard to keep temps down. I was constantly calling my wife on hot days, to check on the temp, shutting lights off in the afternoon, throwing ice in the sump and running 6 fans on the tank and sump. Buying a chiller, while not needed during the winter months, I feel was essential during the summer. I too don't understand peoples philosophy of keeping corals with 250-400w MH lighting and not having a chiller. I constantly see posts from people who lose corals and fish to high temps. I don't know about everybody else, but these things are expensive here! If I lost a few nice arcos and other corals, I could be out a few hundred dollars in corals. I whole tank when fully stocked could be thousands of dollars. Chillers are not cheap, and do use a fair amount of electricity, but I constantly see others recommend people taking the plunge to 400w MH systems as, "nothing is too good for my reef" or I'll get better coloration with the higher wattage. I don't really see much of a difference in going to multiple 400w MH bulbs or running a chiller to save your reef, they both suck up your electric bill. People even buy generators that might be used once every few years, but don't have a chiller because they are too expensive. Everything is expensive in this hobby. I bought a ampmaster pump for like $300 when they came out, the $600 for the chiller did not seem that unreasonable and it saves my reef more often then a generator.
I'm not saying that chillers should be thought of as mandatory, but I think people should give more thought to using chillers. They take a huge burden out of reef keeping.
I live on Long Island in NY, the temps this week were 97-100F. I bought a chiller last month, and didn't sweat a thing this whole week, actually I hardly paid attention to the tank temp at all. Before this heat wave hit, I was doing everything to keep temps in the tank from rising higher than 85 with outside temps in the high 70' to mid eighties. I felt the high humidity in this area (north shore) made it very hard to keep temps down. I was constantly calling my wife on hot days, to check on the temp, shutting lights off in the afternoon, throwing ice in the sump and running 6 fans on the tank and sump. Buying a chiller, while not needed during the winter months, I feel was essential during the summer. I too don't understand peoples philosophy of keeping corals with 250-400w MH lighting and not having a chiller. I constantly see posts from people who lose corals and fish to high temps. I don't know about everybody else, but these things are expensive here! If I lost a few nice arcos and other corals, I could be out a few hundred dollars in corals. I whole tank when fully stocked could be thousands of dollars. Chillers are not cheap, and do use a fair amount of electricity, but I constantly see others recommend people taking the plunge to 400w MH systems as, "nothing is too good for my reef" or I'll get better coloration with the higher wattage. I don't really see much of a difference in going to multiple 400w MH bulbs or running a chiller to save your reef, they both suck up your electric bill. People even buy generators that might be used once every few years, but don't have a chiller because they are too expensive. Everything is expensive in this hobby. I bought a ampmaster pump for like $300 when they came out, the $600 for the chiller did not seem that unreasonable and it saves my reef more often then a generator.
I'm not saying that chillers should be thought of as mandatory, but I think people should give more thought to using chillers. They take a huge burden out of reef keeping.
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