Stop the hypocrisy

[BCReefer]

As a new person to marine tanks (going on 9 months), I personally need to be told what to do and not do. I have books now and pre-read everything I can before buying.

Based upon the comments (sometimes not so nice) that I received from experienced reefers I know have a healthy tank that I really enjoy. It is for a selfish reason that I have the tank. It brings me pleasure and it calms me down in a world that is nuts.

I took it all in (comments from other reefers), digested it, and spat out what I needed to do with my tank. After I destroyed 4 healthy fish in 2 days (yes one was a yellow Tang) in my less than 30G tank, I started over, learning form the pros on this board and others.

I have no problem with someone telling me I’m doing something wrong based upon their experience and some sort of proof, as I do feel that I have obligation to the animals in my tank to give them the best possible life than I can. I don’t always agree on how they do it but it is needed to be done.


Cheers,
Patrick

 

[MandarinFish]

Well stated Patrick.

Sometimes people on this board are harsh and dogmatic, but I take their advice very strongly into consideration myself.

I don't follow peoples' orders, but I do take it seriously.

 

[imow]

Lets say I have a 6" tang in a 55. That tank is 12" x 48". To everyone, that would seem cruel. That would be equivalent to me living in a 12' x 48' room, assuming I am 6' tall. If I were to live in a 12'x48' room, and I was well fed and well taken care off, I would be pretty happy.


Disclaimer:
BTW... I do not condone a tang in a 55, just a different viewpoint on the matter.

 

[SPC]

Posted by imow:
If I were to live in a 12'x48' room, and I was well fed and well taken care off, I would be pretty happy.

I wouldn't, I like to be able to intermingle with my own kind. Is there a chance that I can satisfy one of my basic biological needs in that room, reproduction?
Can I grow to my full size potential?
Steve

 

[Anonymous]

Not only those things SPC pointed out, but would you really have a 12'x48' space once you consider those other things you would need such as a toilet, bed, chair (or live rock in a tank). Also, if the average step is say 3 feet, you would have to turn around every 16 steps, that would make me a little stir crazy.

 

[jethro]

They keep Shamu in a swimming pool.

My Tang is doing great in my goldfish bowl.

I put him in a 100 gallon tank and he had a nervous breakdown. Now he is back in my goldfish bowl where he feels more secure.

 

[jethro]

You can tell who are the democrats and who are the republicans on this forum.

You all have failed to bring up the subject of fish transportation.

I think it is terrible that fish are being transported in plastic bags. Can you imagine the emotional affect this has on fish? I think congress should pass a law stating that all fish transporation that takes more than 15 minutes should require a tanker truck of at least 100 gallons/inch of fish being transported.

How would you like to be riding around in a plastic bag? The fish have to know that the bag could pop or spring a leek at any moment. Not to mention having to endure the bumpy ride and clumsy handling that can occur.

 

[Mouse]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote

They keep Shamu in a swimming pool.

Yea, and the fact that there on the eighth baby Shamu can only be testament to that, eeeuuugh. I hate that show.

 

[Mouse]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote

I think it is terrible that fish are being transported in plastic bags. Can you imagine the emotional affect this has on fish? I think congress should pass a law stating that all fish transporation that takes more than 15 minutes should require a tanker truck of at least 100 gallons/inch of fish being transported.

In the far east they just have bags pinned to the wall, no stock tanks at all. They take them out the packing box still in the bag and pin it to a polystyrene wall in the shop till it gets sold or dies. But then again we are talking about the same ass holes that fish the bioluminecent squid that appear in only one point in the ocien once a year to breed. And their there with their big nets scooping the little glowing squid dudes by the hundreds. The only proof of their existance we have is the fact that they appear at the same time each year to breed, and all for the sake of an afrodisiac. I hate humanity sometimes.

I think they call them Aki or something, there supposed to be a delecacy. Basically i think that translates to "we know more about how they taste than how they live".

These might taste like the best thing in the world and give you super human powers but i have a little more respect for something that only comes into contact with us on a yearly basis.

What next, Dumbo chop suey.

 

[Ben1]

Ben 4 I disagree with you, I think there always will be a x tank for a y fish. Some fish like carver said, stay in a small territory in nature. Clowns for example stay with in a few feet of there anemone at all times during there whole life. Otherwise thed be eaten. If you have ever dived or snorkled you would see that tangs seem to fly through the ocean, they do stop and pick but are meant to have a very large territory.

I personnally dont just keep these animals to look at but keep them to learn and understand their needs, it seems knowledge should be every reefers #1 goal over any thing else. But thats just IMO.

Some experts are more autors then "experts" and some reefers on this board know more then any of the "experts". Some of Scott Michaels recommended tank sizes seem to me to be way to small, but the rest of his info is great. IMO you need to learn what info of the "experts" to use and what info to compair, just like this board.

 

[Jase]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Ben 4:
<strong>T
... the experts ...such as... Nick Dakin, etc. If they claim that a fish can thrive in a certain size tank, who are we/you to argue?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Not sure I'd consider Dakin an expert...

 

[mickyryan]

ok quick question this 24 foot great white I have will it be ok to assume it will be ok in me 30 gallon tank??

 

[Wrasse]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote

ok quick question this 24 foot great white I have will it be ok to assume it will be ok in me 30 gallon tank??

It depends. What are the dimensions of the 30g??

 

[coralite1]

I have alot of tangs, 7 yr old purple tang, 2 yr black and vlamingi tang, 4 yr hepatus, scopas, another purple and a yellow. I don't know about your fish but mine never have to worry about finding food or being food. Would you rather be hunter gatherer caveman always lookin for a meal worryin about ticks, bugs, squitos, snakes and other cave people who dont like you or..
Would you rather be set up in a temperature controlled pad where dinner is always served and you get to watch Mash reruns?

 

[naesco]

Tell us about your tank, the Vlamingi.
Got any pics?

 

[coralite1]

Now before I get chewed, this is how the fish are distributed
125 reef purple, yellow, vlamingi
55 reef black
120 48x36x16h reef hepatus
50 breeder reef scopas
135 Fish, purple

I still dont know if I want a sailfin to add to the zebrasoma collection for a 125 fish free reef.
I guess then there will always be the gemmatum I cant have. Anyway, all these fish have grown up in the tanks having been placed as juvies.
The Vlamingi is one of the few fish I've named, Otto. I got him around 2" in may 00 and today he is around 9 inches. When I first got him he could race from one end to the other in the blink of an eye, just a big streak he was. Now him and the other 2 tangs lazily pace the tank grazing from end to end. I am already piecing the information to construct The Big One for when he gets 24" plus. When I consider how restricted their range is, I just remind myself that there's no sharks around and they should be grateful.besides, 90% of the Fish are in 10% of the water. I have some great pics of Otto the vlamingi but I am ignorant of the ways of posting, I got used the the RC attachment feature.

Now about this space issue, I think there is no justification for the importation of any large adult marine Fish. A 10" tang that is used to waves measured in meters per second is behaviourly a very different fish from a juvenile tang that hasnt left the mangrove it settled in. Aquiring such show specimens should require permits, licensing, some kind of certification like raptors and big cats. Putting a large psychologically mature fish in a small aquarium is cruelty to animals anyway you slice it dice it.

 

[Mouse]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote

ok quick question this 24 foot great white I have will it be ok to assume it will be ok in me 30 gallon tank??

Fine providing you stunt its growth with ciggarretes.

 

[SPC]

Posted by Coralite:
When I consider how restricted their range is, I just remind myself that there's no sharks around and they should be grateful.besides, 90% of the Fish are in 10% of the water.

-So by keeping these fish in a tank with no predators you believe that you are giving them a better home then they would have in the ocean, or a tank large enough for them to satisfy some of their basic biological needs? There are a lot of predators outside your house, do you stay locked up inside 24/7 to avoid them?
Do you have any idea what kind of area %10 of the ocean is? You surely are not serious about using this statisic to justify what you are doing are you?
Steve

 

[skylsdale]

Ben 4, when you read enough books, you may be surprised at how vague some of the experts can be when it comes to keeping fish as well. This isn't a knock on those who have dedicated their lives to the somewhat obscure and detailistic aspects of the marine hobby--heck, I'd be right there with them if I had the chance--but to keep in mind that they don't know everything. Being published may make you an authority, but doesn't make you all-knowing.

There are some members on various boards throughout the Net, due to their knowledge and dedication, who's advice I would take over several PhD's in the same field. Any "expert" will tell you (well, most of them anyway) that the "common" hobbyist has contributed quite a bit to the knowledge and well-being of this hobby, even making a few breakthroughs now and again. If it weren't for the data and samples from a few hobbyists tanks, some experts in the hobby would have hardly anything to work with. While a someone with a PhD is defintely helpful and knows their stuff--I won't dispute that--there is still plenty to learn from the everday Joe Hobbyist. After all, "If the Romans had been obliged to learn Latin, they would never have found time to conquer the world." --Heinrich Heine

It takes a lot of heads being put together to come up with the knowledge--and yes, sometimes dogmas--that make up this hobby. These boards contain a greater wealth of information than most of the books can offer in any one place.

 

[Miklos]

Instead of authors,experts, and hobbysist giving gallonage,they should give minimum tank dim ensions and than the area the fish maintains in the wild as a comparision.So say for a tang,tank minumum four feet but in the wild swim as much as x feet.Also people should be aware when they put a fish into to small of an enclosure;you stunt the fishes growth,supress its immune sysytem therefore maiking it more susceptible to disease.You also bring out the worst charactersistics in the fish such as faded color due to stress,agression and territoralism due to space limitations.
Nick