Please read and temporarily boycott eBay!

[newreefman1]

Did anyone check out just phishs site(the ebay link posted above)?

Its obviously not that in depth but its not all that bad. Ive seen alot worse looking corals and information given from a LFS. Shoot even hes methods for customers buying uncured live rock and wanting to cure are accurate and much better advice than the bucket and airstone that I hear one LFS advise all the time.
Im confused on if a reputable dealer decides to make more money and hit a new market on ebay why this is a big issue? If its an irresponsible one, attack those people....

I wouldnt boycott ebay for letting aquarists trade and sell frags.....

JT...you sure you just dont eventually want to lose business to ebay brokers like whats happened in the electronics market?
I do agree a coral is indeed an animal but it is in fact a Shippable animal..as seen by every wholesaler out there.

 

[Chucker]

FWIW, it has been my experience with my LFS's that they do not order sun/flowerpot/carnation corals, but receive them as box fillers. As a matter of fact, they are quite frustrated when they arrive. I just checked Harbor's stock list, and don't see any of those corals there. I fail to see the harm in carrying care info for them on a separate page.

 

[JT]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by newreefman1:
<strong>JT...you sure you just dont eventually want to lose business to ebay brokers like whats happened in the electronics market?</strong><hr></blockquote>

No, like I have said. I have no problems with people selling corals on eBay. It is no different than going to an online store and adding a coral to a shopping basket and checking out. I have no problem with aquabid.com and other auction houses that allow live animals to be sold.

It is totally unethical to have a policy with things such as:

"Live Animals - Live animals and pets may not be listed on eBay."

"Other Animal Products - Endangered or protected species, or any part of any endangered or protected species may not be listed on eBay."

yet still allow people to list fish and corals.

- JT

 

[newreefman1]

Why exactly do you have a vendetta against ebay then?
Are you out to find everyone making a mistake or overlooking something?
Youre going to be on the net all day if you are.

Good luck.
Jason.

BTW I went to aquabid.com and it looks more like a freshie site. Didnt find any corals when I ran searches.... Not a place I would visit again.

[ December 16, 2001: Message edited by: newreefman1 ]</p>

 

[Anonymous]

About a year ago, a woman on Ebay spent several months selling dozens of corals she illegally collected from the carribean. Like JT now, I contacted ebay over and over at the time and never got anything even approaching a real response from them -- even after showing them the documentation detailing that they were allowing the traffic of organisms illegally (again, note these were carribean animals specifically listed as collected by the seller). When I finally started CC'ing my emails to Fish & Wildlife, I still never got a response from ebay -- but the seller's account was banned.

This is a great example because it illustrates JT's point. Ebay's policies are in effect because they know they cannot police the legalities.

 

[johnny1]

Just thought I would give a link to this discussion on reef central. Good points are made for each side on each board.

However, I still think JT has personal goals in his vendetta. And just because gonis aren't on his stock list right now, there are certainitly other things on there that shouldn't be.

Not to mention, I could order something from most online dealers without EVERY talking to them. There certainitly is very little immediate info on their sites without searching for articles. At least occasionally ebay sellers have info in their sales. And I agree fully with people who say any info is better than most LFS.

Here's the link to the reef central JT discussion:
JT's Vendetta

Nick

 

[newreefman1]

CJ-- a good point indeed. Not really the focus of the intial message on the boycott really though.

I do think that anyone that has illegally collected something and tries to sell it on ebay deserves to be punished...and if ebay ignores it, they are most certainly at fault. Would it cause an all together boycott by me? Probably not(unless this happens all the time) I wouldnt boycott such a large company cause one crazy criminal got away with something. If it is in fact a problem that is quite common though, I would suggest a boycott/petition of ebays practices. I just dont feel that JT has the right motives in his/her reasoning for a boycott.

J

 

[fergy]

Johny, et al

As I posted on the RC thread about this, several people online started voicing concerns about it, and JT took the ball and wrote the letter. He did not start the topic due to a personal vendetta, but rather in support of others who were upset.

For those that posted a link the Justphish's auction, that's great that he specifies care requirements. Take a look at the following, from another auction:

"This auction is for the Metallic Branch Flowerpot coral in picture(auction for actual coral in pic). Outstanding glow with actinic lights!! ~~~If you have any questions about this coral, please click the " ask seller a question" thats shown above~~~ Will ship next day to most areas $30 or second day to most areas $18. (Will ship 2/3 day Post Office for $12.50 , but NOT GUARANTEED)All corals have a LIVE ON ARRIVAL GUARANTEE for next day shipping**. This item surives best with next day shipping. Shipping price includes ice pack, heat pack if needed and box change. COMBINE WITH MY OTHER AUCTIONS(click on "View Sellers Other Auctions" above) AND SAVE ON SHIPPING. Each extra coral added is only $3-10 per coral depending on zip. Must have saltwater tank for this coral to survive!! Will accept PAYPAL and Money Orders.^^^PAYMENTS must be made no later than 5 days after auction ends or we have the right to re-auction item(we will hold if waiting on other auctions if notified)^^^ We now add OXYGEN to your bag for the corals to enjoy while in transit!! "

Let's also look at this person's history: in the past 6 months, they've sold 317 corals under the name "Roe's Marine World". This "business" does not exist in the city they are claiming to be from, so not only is this just a person person running an Ebay business, they are claiming to be more than they are. Anyone can set up a tank at home, purchase corals in bulk from a transhipper, and sell them on Ebay. There is no accountability whatsoever in doing this. Most reputable stores I know at least make some attempt to see if the person can keep the animal alive before selling it. This person will sell to anyone, as is evidenced by his comment, "Must have saltwater tank for this coral to survive."


Does this person take care to explain what is needed for this animal? In this case, no, except that it needs saltwater. Do you support a LFS that sells difficult corals to anyone? Do you purchase cyanide fish because they're cheap?

Though JT states his actions are in response to Ebay breaking its own policies, I for one, will gladly have the b@lls to say I don't think corals should be sold to just anyone because they win an auction, nor should certain corals or fish be sold to just anybody by the LFS. If we as hobbyists, and industry representatives, don't step in and police our own actions, someone else will. Pay attention to some of the legislative actions that have been taken in the past couple of years. We may be in for a rude awakening if we don't change our actions.

BRIAN

 

[MandarinFish]

E-Bay is your one-stop web shopping for machine guns, condor eggs, Nazi paraphrenalia, cocaine, and Thai girls.

Capitalism at it's pinnacle - buy the above with a card # and pretty soon it shows up at your door.

 

[Downdeep]

First of all JT, the prices for goniopora were on Harbor's website as of this morning, but have been since taken off the site. And I fully understand that exporters sometimes fill orders with certain items even when they aren't ordered.

Its not a sellers problem that Ebay can't follow they're own rules. But I'm not so sure I understand why
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote

This practice is going against everything AMDA, MAC, and the US Coral Reef Task Force are trying to fix in the industry.

Does it go against MAC's Policy for the sale of corals? or AMDA?
Or is it the goals of both of these organizations to ban the sale of mail order corals?

While I agree with you on the point that Ebay should enforce its own policies, I really don't understand what your point is at all.

 

[fishpoo]

i don't see anything wrong with selling corals on ebay. If the seller doesn't deliver a live and healthy coral, that person will have an unhappy customer and possibly a bad name on the auction. Why would they risk that? I would imagine they take care of the corals as much as anyone. Maybe more so, for the above reason.

 

[HARRISON]

Ever feel like you got sucked into something just for the sake of arguement rather than any true meaning...

 

[zooqi]

why some people make life hard. I personaly don't think that corals are animals and that's my opinion and I might be wrong. There are many places in the net where people sell corals or exchange them and I don't think is a bad idea. This is my openion and I might be wrong,, don't take me to the court over this.

 

[SPC]

Zoo, you are wrong, corals are indeed animals, this has already been shown once in this thread.
Steve

 

[Anonymous]

Howdy folks, I just wanted to be sure that everyone gets to see, (in case someone here doesn't read every single forum online like a loser like me does) that I have adressed these issues and so has ebay, in posts over at reefcentral.com
http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&postid=344748&t=7917#post344748

Thanks
JP
Just Phish

 

[zooqi]

SPC: Thank you, I read about it and It does say that they are animals. I still don't see it a big deal to be sold on ebay. I have not bought any on ebay but I just wanted to post my opinion here because ebay is like any other places that sell corals. Sometimes you might find better deals from hobbies than companies. Companies probably don't like to see people sell in ebay. Well, I will have a survey here and see how many people agree and how many don't agree with people selling on ebay. You can e-mail me and type survey in the subject line and in the body type agree or don't agree and in a few days I will post the results. e-mail to
[email protected]

 

[EnvironmentalWacko]

I bought corals from Justphish on Ebay. It's
a respectable business and I was very happy.

I had more dialog with Jushphish before my
winning bid was placed than I do with the
LFS.

The proverbial "scape goat" has been found!

 

[Anonymous]

I don't understand why some of you think it is ok for someplace to make rules and not follow them. On corals being animals, it doesn't matter what one thinks, they are animals. How can someone arbitrarily say we don't consider an animal an animal? Didn't work on the cop when I said I don't consider the word stop to mean stop. Of course that depends on the meaning of the word is.

 

[naesco]

It is pretty hard for a reefer to defend Ebay when they decide that a coral is not an animal and don't do anything to stop the sale.
We are in the process of developing a list of species which are impossible to keep which industry will adopt.
Ebay presents an opportunity to hide behind the secrecy of the seller to sell species like gonipora which shold not be sold by anyone.
We need to stop this.

 

[fergy]

I think there is an important distinction to make in all of this. Ebay may claim corals aren't animals, (and hey, why not puppies and cats...but that's another story.) I personally think that there is a difference between the ethics of hobbyists selling frags to each other via Ebay, or any other online forum, and people who are obvious wholesalers of wild-collected corals selling them off en masse to anyone who has $10, with the only requirement being to have "a saltwater tank if you want it to survive".

People came to Justphish's defense, but as I stated several times, at least he posted the care requirements of the animals, and went out of his way to answer any questions people may ask. Those such as Roe's Marine World or whatever don't do this. They are the proverbial puppy mills of the marine industry.

And, if anyone should wish to contact Roe's Marine World to let them know what they think of his selling wild-harvested corals such as goniopora via Ebay, here's a little holiday present a few days early:

Roe's Marine World
Tyrone Weathers
1511 Effingham Rd
Charlotte, NC 28202

704-577-6627
704-399-0596
[email protected]

Merry Christmas, be sure to send a card in my name...

BRIAN