Moorish Idol

[Minh Nguyen]

all this talk about moorish idols being impossible to keep! what a load of crap, i'v had 3 in my reef tank for the last 9months...... The idols get olong with my 8 yellow tangs, 1 emperour,1 sailfin , 1 regal , 1clown tang which is the only surgeon to show aggression to the idols.. so not impossible with the right conditions
GT...s wales


THE HOME OF GREAT REEF TANKS!!!!!!

I, for one, would love to see this tank. Pictures Garry? A little information about this tank?
I have never keep Moorish Idols so I cannot comment on them.
Minh Nguyen

 

[dizzy]

I happy you do not stock Moorish Idol Dizzy but with respect you still to not understand.
Endangered is endangered. That is easy to understand.

Dear naesco I humbly respect your opinion but perhaps it is you who does not understand. First I do not think moorish idols are endangered. Second I do not think they are commonly sold. I do not sell them. I imagine a lot of other stores don't either.(Selling customers fish that die is bad for long term business) I also don't see large quantities of them being offered by wholesalers. Many suppliers will list the number of specimens available. Moorish idols are not frequently listed in large numbers, although the selling price is low. It is easy to frown on selling this fish, but the truth is that the pet industry is almost assuredly not causing its demise. Pick a better victim please.


But it is not longer acceptable to suggest that reefers experiment with keeping fish like Moorish Idol. Yhat thinking is in the past. It is an ethical issue, Dizzy. Moorish Idols need not die by the thousands so that one day we may be able to keep them. Leave the study of keeping fish like these to the experts

naesco unless they are being eaten I seriously doubt they are being killed by the thousands. Remember today's average hobbyist may be tomorrow's expert. We should treat them responsibly, but we should not ban the learning experience.

 

[Garry thomas]

firstly! I didnot intend to stir up any emotions, I love the moorish idol it is my favorite fish,All i am saying is in the right conditions they will thrive not just survive? There is a differance. AS to the chap that thinks i dont know the differance between a bannerfish (HENIOCHUS ACUMINATUS) WHICH IS A BUTTERFLY,AND A MOORISH IDOL (KI HI KI HI) AS THEY S
SAY IN HAWAI OR (ZANCLUS CORNUTUS)ASTHEY SAY EVERWERE ELSE.
I made the comment about ONLY SHOULD BE KEPT IN REEF TANKS because ifeel thatis what they need ,yes a spacious reef tank!or tanks Mmm check out practical fishkeeper dec o2 and you will seemy old reef tank 7ftx2ftx2.5ft of which is now sold and made way for my present one! I'm sorry i don't have a camera but buy jan's 03 edition of TODAYS FISHKEEPER and you WILL see me AND my tank with 86 fish 29 differant species of which the aformentioned moorish idol. Ifeel very lucky to have what i'v got I AM VERY PROUD NOT BOASTFULL or i nearly forgot? my tank MMMmmm 11ft x 2.5ft x2.5ft with a 7ft x 2x1.6ft sump of which 4ft is arefugium. buy the mags check it out. Ill try and get a camera as well hope to have been helpfull... GT ..s.wales
THE HOME OF GREAT REEF TANKS!

 

[dizzy]

Good show Garry, jolly good show. I think you proved your untroll like. I'm not sure where to pick up a copy of Today's Fishkeeper, but if you can send me a copy I'll snap a few pictures and post them for you.(Personal mail me.) I think some of you might owe Garry an apology. Please try and take the time to find out a little about someone before you judge them, and I think a less confrontational message board will result.

 

[esmithiii]

If this is the case perhaps we should pass a law that requires all LFS owners such as yourself to take an ethics course.

Man thats out there. I agree that more education is needed, but that is too much.

As for the "endangered" label, moorish idols are far from endangered. They are not even threatened.

Here are some interesting links:

http://mbgnet.mobot.org/salt/animals/idol.htm
http://www.amonline.net.au/fishes/fishf ... rnutus.htm
http://www.ilhawaii.net/~dpdresie/Moorish.html
http://waquarium.otted.hawaii.edu/MLP/r ... shIdol.pdf
http://www.uog.edu/marinelab/fish/speci ... nutus.html
http://ichtyonb1.mnhn.fr/Summary/Specie ... e=cornutus
List of registered occureneces compiled by FishBase

I believe in responsible reefkeeping. I believe that LFSs should be educated. I don't think that it is a good idea to mandate ethics classes because simply put I think that they don't work and that it is a rights/freedoms issue. (I don't think they work even in Canada )

As for this particular fish- My opinion is that it should be left to the experts. Once we know more about its care then it could be kept by more aquarists.

 

[esmithiii]

Oh, and here is a photo:

 

[LFS42]

Gary,
I didn't mean to insult you with not being able to tell the difference between the fish.
My comment was directed at the original poster and others newer to the hobby.
In your defense, I'm glad to here that you have successfully kept the fish and wish I had the room to try. It was always one of my favorite. Everyone should keep in mind a short time ago it was unthinkable to breed marine fish at home, or keep corals without sunning them every day.

 

[Minh Nguyen]

Garry,
It is too bad that Today Fishkeeper is not widely sold here in the US. I will see if BN carries the magazine. I would love to see you fish tank.
If you can get a picture and post it it would be great.
Regarding MI, do you have any tips as to why you are sucessful with this fish other than a huge tank? Any tips for other reefkeepers?
Minh

 

[esmithiii]

Good show Garry, jolly good show. I think you proved your untroll like. I'm not sure where to pick up a copy of Today's Fishkeeper, but if you can send me a copy I'll snap a few pictures and post them for you.(Personal mail me.) I think some of you might owe Garry an apology. Please try and take the time to find out a little about someone before you judge them, and I think a less confrontational message board will result.

I have searched for both magazines and came up empty-handed. I am assuming that they are available in the UK only. It is curious to me that you could afford a 500+ gal. tank with 86 fish and not a digital camera? Not that I doubt you, but would love to see your tank!

I saw an interesting and apropos cartoon once in which a dog (looked like a collie of some sort) was typing away on a computer and another dog was looking on. The one dog says to the other: "The best thing about the internet is that no one knows you are a dog." I don't think it is inappropriate for anyone to be doubtful of anything they hear on the internet.

I don't think any apologies are necessary for asking to see his tank or seeming doubtful of Garry's claims, especially when in previous posts requests to see pictures of his tank were not even responded to.

Asking for the dimensions of his tank is very appropriate, IMO. It is not right for me to say "I think the whole deal about not keeping two tangs together is a crock. Anyone should be able to keep several yellow tangs in a tank together as they seem to school in nature and I myself have seven... and I won't mention that I have a 500 gal tank so those of you with a 55gal tank shouldn't think twice about buying three or four."

One pre-requisite for posting on any bulletin board on the internet is thick skin. Those easily offended need not post, IMO. I am not saying that we need not be nice nor not mind our manners, just that on these boards, anyone can claim anything so be prepared for people to question you and be doubtful of your claims.

 

[Garry thomas]

thank you for apoligies but surely understand that idols are NOT for everyone. And even i will agree that they should not be attempted to keep, unless u have the right tank and experiance? Over the coming weeks i will get some pics online. Dizzy you say u cant get todays fishkeeper?if it helps the ed's name is dereck lambert his e mail is
[email protected] and i.m sure that he could drop u some pics of my tank! i'd like to see my tank on here as much as the non believers, do you get practical fishkeeping over there? please any one contact dereck to get some pics GT s.wales

THE HOME OF GREAT REEF TANK'S

 

[esmithiii]

To my knowledge we do not get Today's Fishkeeper nor Practical Fishkeeping over on this side of the big pond.

Garry, I would be happy to host on my server any pictures you would like to be shown. Feel free to e-mail me: [email protected]

Also, it would probably be better for you to shoot the editor (Dereck Lambert) an e-mail requesting the pictures (since you can give him permission to release them to one of us) and have him e-mail the photos directly to me (or to dizzy if he is willing)

 

[dizzy]

Garry,
I'll e-mail Dereck and see if he will send me a copy of the magazine. Ernie makes some good points about the BSers, but some people like to attack just a bit too much. I sort of felt like I got flamed on one of my first posts and I still look for chances to repay the favor. I think we should treat people the way we want them to treat us.

Mitch

 

[Garry thomas]

smithy you ground me down, i'll have a chat with dereck and get him to send u some pics will it finally cure your non belief? Will u put them on this site? i would b gratefull and finally owning adigital camera is no good when u dont know how to use i'v only had a computer 3 weeks never used one before! my I T skills still very poor but my REEF KEEPING SKILLS well thats another story, i'd love to see your face when u see my tank! I'M PROUD NOT BOASTFULL!!!! and by the way y has'nt anybody commented on my new thread BOXING SHRIMPS or am i boasting about not just having a pair but a breeding pair???
as ever have fun GT s.wales

THE HOME OF GREAT REEF TANKS

and size does matter it's a todger thing![/list]

 

[Garry thomas]

Hello Minh hope u did not get boged down like i did totally thrown off what we set off to achieve! idols i find need lots of good quality live rock so it can pick and browse all day? it will take various sponges and turnicates but never once have i seen it peck ANY of my corals! 200+ or dam ..... sorry smiffy i'm doing it again? It does seem susepticle to black spot (TURBILARIAN WORMS ) i think thats how u spell it, upon import which i sought out with fresh water dips and quarantine tank not main dispay tank a MERE 36 gals so if it helps you want areef tank for a start and i would say....gals i wont give a figure because somebody else may be keeping them in less, but the guy that's got my last tank 7ft has 1 and it's doing verywell GT.... s wales

 

[Minh Nguyen]

I got a 450 g, 8-foot tank. I only have 5 medium fishes in this tank plus a large number of small fishes. The larger fishes are Purple tang, Yellow tang, Mimic tang, Powder Blue tang, Majestic Angle. I also have a Marine Betta pair. The Marine Bettas mostly stay in their crevice and don't go out much. They are long but I would consider them in the small group of fish instead of large. I will remove the Mimic tang in the near future. He just doesn’t seem comfortable in my tank. He is 3 years old and grew from 1.5 inches to about 7 inches at this time. I also have a Harlequin Tusk, 3.5 inches, and a 2 inches Powder Brown tang in my 125 g sump. They are both doing well. I am not sure if I will add them into my main tank or not.
I have considered one or two MI but only if I think I can be successful in keeping them. I am really interested in any specific things that Garry have to say regarding his MI
Minh Nguyen

 

[Anonymous]

Dr. Reef,

If people like you had been making rules to govern the hobby 20-years ago we wouldn't be keeping stony corals in our tanks today.

I find this comment somewhat troubling. It appears to me that you do not know the difference between an environmentalist and an ecologist. I, my friend, am an ecologist.

Ecologists focus on the science of how species interact with eachother, and their environment, both living and non-living. We use sound silence that has been peer-reviewed to make educated decisions and inferences about the state of nature, habitats, and ecosystem processes.

Environmentalists tend to be people who jump to quick conclusions, but only because their heart is in the right place, and they want to do what they think is best, and do it as soon as they can. In some circles, this leads to speculation on topics, and mass hysteria fed by the media. This is the worst kind of environmentalism. Environmentalism at its finest leads to management based on sound science that has accumulated due to the work of ecologists like myself. Environmentalism also has a rather unfortunate political twists to it that hinders it from making strides that benefit everyone. It is too polar of an issue, with most Americans feeling that one political party is at the complete opposite end from the other.

Now that I have explained to you the difference, let me expound on your comment.

20 years ago we would still have had no idea of the peril that reefs face due to increasing sea surface temperature anomalies. Furthermore, trade was not yet having a significant impact on coral reefs. There was also a general lack of scientific literature supporting a steady decline in reefs. As an ecologist, I would have viewed that current literature, and concluded that the trade was not having a significant impact, but that it should be watched to determine at what point it would have an impact. Thus, we would probably still have "SPS" corals in our tanks.

You should be very proud to have members such as myself active on this board. I do a great bit in educating members on the topics of coral reef ecology and conservation issues, and I don't believe I am very instigatory in the general discussion forum. Researchers such as myelf are the best chance coral reefs have at remaining a sustainable resource, and the work we perform is important in keeping your income around.

Respectfully,
Brian Todd

 

[Garry thomas]

you sound that u have avery nice tank Minh as i have said i think the idols should b kept in reef systems but with the right diet poss f/only? All my tangs angels idols, are fed regualy brine, mysis mainly but the secret with all the fish i'v mentioned is algy. i also feed afew large sheets of sushi sea weed (super markets over her) THE COST only 99 of your good old fashioned PENNIES! they love it? all my fish are fat a bit like me actually...ha ha give em the right diet and they will be HAPPY
...GT....s wales

 

[Anonymous]

As for the "endangered" label, moorish idols are far from endangered. They are not even threatened.

Ernie,

Although Acropora cervicornis and palmata in the Florida Keys is at a record low population, has the highest incidence of diseases ever, and is locally extinct at most of the reefs there, our government has decided that A. cervicornis is not endangered, or even threatened yet. So, let's be careful throwing these terms around.

A very well documented and peer-reviewed study in HI showed increased macroalgae and a corresponding decrease in coral cover as a result of a 63% decrease in yellow tangs due to collection on that reef. This suggests to me that, althought yellow tangs are not threatened, heavy harvest of this species still impacts the reef in some areas. I have no doubt that Moorish Idols are not endangered globally, but it is the nature of fish harvesters to locally exhaust a reef and then move on to others.

Furthermore, most adult reef fish have very high site fidelity, keeping to one reef for most of their life. Therefore, it is only thru juvenile recruitment from pelagic larvae that depleted stocks on one reef may increase from stocks on another.

Regards,
Brian

 

[Garry thomas]

to/ true ...... question how does an importer put a price on a fish ie: prettiness, how rare, collectability shallow or deep water? indo pacific MOORISH IDOLS 89cents example

 

[dizzy]

[You should be very proud to have members such as myself active on this board. I do a great bit in educating members on the topics of coral reef ecology and conservation issues, and I don't believe I am very instigatory in the general discussion forum. Researchers such as myelf are the best chance coral reefs have at remaining a sustainable resource, and the work we perform is important in keeping your income around.

Respectfully,
Brian Todd

Brian (Dr. Reef),

I am very glad you are active on this board. I read your comments and respect them. I do think comparing my comments on keeping difficult fish to justifying dangerous drug use was a bit out there. I'm 100% in favor of good sound science. I do not want our hobby to be responsible for the extinction of a single species. When it is time to stop collecting certain species we should stop. I think Bangaii cardinals are at that point. I think many seahorses are also approaching that point, but not so much because of this hobby. Like Ernie said we all need to be a little thick skinned if we are going to post here. We all have a lot of common ground. Let's all begin by being respectful to someone until they prove unworthy of that respect.

Repectfully,
Mitch Gibbs