Fishless Cycling

[wittyfellow]

Hi everyone...

I ran into this the other day while researching ways to get my tank up and running. It sounds interesting, but also geared for freshwater tanks. Can anyone tell me if you've used this method for saltwater, and if you should do this AFTER or BEFORE adding live rock?

http://www.tomgriffin.com/aquamag/cycle2.html

Thanks...

 

[Lurshy]

Live Rock should be self-cycling. No need to add fish and torture them through ammonia spikes, or add other chemicals.

The natural die off on the live rock provides the food necessary to stimulate the bacteria growth already in the rock. Just basically put the rock in the tank (pre-setup w/ water / heat / circulation) and wait. Using your test kits you should see an ammonia spike over next few days followed by nitrite, and nitrate. Just watch out for the Algea blooms which are also part of the settling-in cycle.

Do a search and read a couple of books and they will go into this in more detail.

 

[ReefLion]

Exactly. There is no need for any fish or any of the packaged "tank cycling bacteria" you can buy. Just get your tank filled and circulating with salt water, add some live rock and wait a month or two. Voila.

Tim

 

[wittyfellow]

i don't have a problem with getting live rock and cycling my tank using live rock. I've read enough and know enough about the differences between all the various ways of cycling.


My question is with this new method being proposed. It seems several people on the thread have used it successfully for their fresh water needs. But can it be adapted for salt water to decrease the amount of cycling time? They seem to be able to cycle the tank in one week... But i question adding pure NH3 from household chemicals.

Apparently, this approach would create a faster growth of the good bacteria colonis, and LARGER colonies than possible with live rock?

I'm wondering if this could be adapted along with the live rock to greatly accelerate the process to inoculate a new tank with a large does of healthy bacteria?

comments? advice?

 

[Anonymous]

Who knows? But I will say finding ways of accelerating a cycle is generally a bad habit to get into with marine tanks. There's no better technique than moving slowly.

 

[Anonymous]

Ok......here I go!...........I have always used fish to cycle my tanks with little if any harm to the fish......however you have to be reasonable about the Fish Method and be caref ul what fish you select for the "task". I do it because I would get bored doing it any other way. I only loss fish in my very early years of cycling tanks. I used the wrong fish and to many. I still recommend it. Much cheaper than purchasing quality live rock and loosing life in the Rock. I like to add a little cultured rock at a time that I hand pick myself. I find this way much more enjoyable. Just exercise patience and don't try to rush the cycling process. Ok...Ok...I know you all are going to say this is cruel ...............well I have not heard a single complaint from the fish I used for this. Never heard any screamin either. I guess you could just pee in your tank ..that would work. Have Fun! :twisted:

 

[Anonymous]

Regardless if you use rock to cycle, you lose life on the rock when you cure it. The only difference is you can use the curing process to cycle the tank, instead of adding fish that may die. Even if you can cycle a tank with fish without killing them, it can be extremely stressful for them when you have to remove them after the cycle is complete. It is generally not accepted as a proper way to cycle a marine tank.

Bottom line: if you plan on adding live rock to your tank, you might as well do it first along with a sand bed.

 

[ReefLion]

I'm not sure if this method will work any faster than live rock, which when curing probably "overproduces" ammonia compared to the amount of bacteria in the system. That's what a cycle is after all, the bacteria catching up to the pollutant. I don't think it matter whether you've got a little extra pollutant or a lot.

This all assumes you are using uncured live rock. Cured live rock will basically already have large, stable populations of bacteria, and so if the trip to your tank is a short one, your tank will have no need to "cycle."

In any case, because we can't count bacteria, fish should be added after a cycle and added slowly, one or two every several weeks or months, so that bacteria populations and other tank parameters have time to adjust and stabilize.

Tim

 

[Anonymous]

That is why I only add Cured Rock to my system and hand pic out of a tank that has fish or corals living in the tank with it. Cycling with "live rock" is ridiculous to me and very expensive. Come on! Give me a break! A few Yellow Tail or Dominoe Damsels works great.and you may decide to keep them..........they are great fish for a Reef Tank.Just do not get any other Fish and you will be rewarded by these wonderful fish. Ok .do I need flame retardent gear now! LOL

 

[Anonymous]

Ridiculous to you, perfectly reasonable and logical to a large portion of the reef community. I'd even go so far as to say almost all of the experience reef community prefers rock to fish.

Live rock is expensive, yes. But it's not like you throw it out after your tank is cycled. All good marine tanks use live rock anyway, so why not just buy it all at the beginning?

BTW, what the hell are you "cycling" if your tank doesn't incorporate live rock? A wet/dry filter?

Nevermind, keep using damsels. :?

 

[Anonymous]

Hi Chris................maybe I have not made myself clear. I have liverock in my tank.I just did not place any "uncultured" rock in my tank and hand pick what I do place in it. I just don't want to pay for rock that was just sitting in sea water. I buy premuium rock that has been in tanks with fish,inverts,and corals. I experience very little die off if any. My tank was already cycled with the damsels. This works for me? I realize that most people that have Reef Tanks cycle with liverock. I just wonder if this has been pushed to sell "liverock" that has just been sitting in seawater at high prices. I just choose my method because I know what I am buying and I never order anything online. I have seen many LFS's with tanks full of "liverock" that is mixed cured and uncured for anything from 5-8 dollars US. If I was cycling with liverock instead of fish this is the Rock I would purchase but only if I can get it for 4-5 bucks per pound. I would never place this rock in my "fish cycled tank". I repeat I only place cultured rock (with lots of life on it )in my already fish cycled tank. The thing I find rediculous is when people pay 8-10 bucks a pound to cycle their tank. What is so rediculous about my method? Cheap fish that continue to live to do their job again in another tank..........and using premium liverock that has little if any die off at all. This may take longer but patience is the name of the game here. Have Fun! 8O

 

[Anonymous]

I forgot to mention that I use a canister filter,power filter ,and a skimmer.

 

[Anonymous]

I buy premuium rock that has been in tanks with fish,inverts,and corals. I experience very little die off if any. My tank was already cycled with the damsels.

I'm still confused...you cycle a bare tank with the damsels? Doesn't provide enough matrix for bacteria to grow on to exactly call it "cycled", IMO.

I generally stock a tank with already cured LR, and the cycle is neglegible, if it exists at all. Don't see that there is any waste involved here...

 

[SPC]

Posted by Bang:

I realize that most people that have Reef Tanks cycle with liverock. I just wonder if this has been pushed to sell "liverock" that has just been sitting in seawater at high prices.

-I'm confused too Dan. Bang, where are you finding cured live rock that is full of life to be cheaper than uncured rock??
Steve

 

[Anonymous]

:? :? :? :? :? :? I am sorry but I don't see why you are so confused? I did not say that I buy cultured rock cheaper than uncultured rock. I am not having any problems with my water chemistry and my inhabitants are doing just fine. What is the problem....????????????????? 8O Now I am gettin kind of agitated. Maybe we should just agree to disagree and leave it at that. I am setting up two more tanks and will use the same method. You guy's got my head spinnin and in a few I think I am goin to be spittin green stuff out of my mouth.LOL Have Fun! My LFS people at 5 different shops understand what I am doing.....and have often done the same. 8O

 

[ReefLion]

Here is the confusion: if you take rock from an established tank, and place it in your bare saltwater-filled tank, then there is no need to "cycle" with anything. There will be no cycle. All that matters at that point is that you don't have a load of fish that's appeciably greater than the load in the prior tank.

So when you add damsels to a tank with fully cured rock, it isn't "cycling." It's basically just selecting damsels as the fish in your tank. If you placed any other fish in there instead of damsels you'd get the same result -- no cycle -- because the rock already has a stable population of bacteria. I think that's the only confusion at this point.

Tim

 

[Anonymous]

Hi Chris................maybe I have not made myself clear. 8O

Actually, I do realize you have live rock in your tank. It does seem however that you place the liverock either later or in very small quantities. So my question should have been: If you don't have live rock(or a very small amount) in the tank from the beginning, what are the damsels cycling? A filter of some sort?

 

[Anonymous]

Yes....I used a Eheim Canister and A Aquaclear 200 Powerfilter. My skimmer is a Prizm. I have about 15 pounds of Liverock in it so far and am adding more a little each month(when I find a piece I like). I plan on using the Aquafilter to speed up the cycling time in my soon to be set up 55 Lionfish Tank. Have Fun! Holy Crap! 8O You sure have alot of posts!

 

[Anonymous]

Have Fun! Holy Crap! 8O You sure have alot of posts!

??? What do you mean by that? I surely do not have a lot of posts.

 

[Anonymous]

Oops!LOL.........I got you confused with SPC and Conner..........see above. Oh man! Seems like the word"confused" is in almost every post here.LOL Well anyway...I am workin on a new 55 gallon that I am going to use a Lionfish for cycling..........I will let you know how it turns out. I am serious! Are we havin fun yet! LOL Hey that fish should really kick up quite a bioload.........what do you think? Should I toss a Snowflake in too? Yeh..............I know I am a real screwball................hehhhhh! What can I say .....I am certified nuts! I worked as a Psych Nurse with the Ted Bundy and Manson types for 23 years. Got to be a bit hairy so I got out. I mean we all have crazy thoughts but hey Iwas starting to act out on them. Hey I tossed my African Cichlids out in the street for the cats to eat so I could start this addiction with Marine Stuff. God help me! Do you think the Fish Police will come get me and lock me up? Yeh Yeh ..I am a clown.hey so was John Wayne Gacy. Ok so I killed a couple fish.....hey I even hook them in the mouth when fishin for food. Oh my I bet I will be tortured in "hell for that". Ok ok .relax I am not comming after your fish.they are safe.heck.I don't even know where your fish are.................!!!!!????? Oh my this smelt dinner is wonderful. Yummy! Hey .my favorite pizza topping is Anchovies.oh you probably already new that from the Poll in the Lounge...whoops.wrong website...see I am confused again..darn! Merry Chistmas fellow Reefer. :twisted: