Opinions needed on sump plans

[Anonymous]

I think your design is getting the kinks worked out nicely. Good thing you posted it before ya built it. :wink:

I would add the check valve as mentioned by righty and re-do the fuge drain as mentioned by mountainbiker and I think you'll be good to go!

Louey

 

[gbundersea]

Thanks for all the great observations!

After looking it over yet again, I think that the full-flow fuge as shown in sumpa.jpg would work fine, with the only issue being the high flow rate.

Adding the bypass loop as in sumpb will not provide the easy flow solution I hoped for. I agree with you guys in that it will introduce problems, with the fuge once again possibly having little or no flow. The suggestion of a check valve is a good one, but I now think my bypass idea was flawed. BTW, the bypass loop is shown underneath for clarity only. It would indeed have been level with the other plumbing. It's a moot point though, since I believe I now have a much better solution.

Combining some of our best ideas, I came up with drawing C which is attached. This moves the fuge back to the right, and feeds it using a tee and valve off of the return pump. I like this in that it doesn't require an additional pump. If, however, the return flow to the main tank is reduced too much, I could just then add a small pump to feed the fuge instead of tapping the main return flow.

The fuge outflows to the return box via gravity, through a standpipe. I'd much rather use a standpipe and keep all bulkheads at the same height on each box. Doing so provides consistency and redundancy, since boxes 1 and 3 will be identical, making it simple if I ever need to swap or reconfigure them. I won't run the fuge much deeper than the rest of the sump, since in the event of power failure I want all 3 containers quickly catching the overflow from the main tank. However, I can play around with that easily, since the depth of the fuge is varied merely by adjusting the length of the standpipe.

Let me know what you think of the latest incarnation.

Also, do any of you have the answer to what's the proper water depth for a TF1000?

Thanks again!

 

[mountainbiker619]

only problem that you may run into is the flow from sump 3 to sump 2.

 

[Bobzarry]

Also be careful, since any blocking or clogging of the return to main tank and or fuge may result in flooding of the fuge.


Bob

 

[Anonymous]

You may also want to put a valve on after the tee on the return. You may have to cut down on the flow to the tank to force the water into the fuge. Maybe, maybe not. But a 6 dollar valve might be worth it incase.

 

[Anonymous]

Also you may want to consider a series of float switches on your return pump. You could put one in the fuge so if it the return clogs and the water level in fuge rises, off goes the return pump. Same thing in the main tank - if the over flow clogs, and the water level goes up, off goes the return and no flooding. I am thinking about doint this for my tank, but havent had the time to track down a float switch that will work with an Ampmastet 3000.

 

[gbundersea]

Again, thanks for the input!

Mountainbiker, I think the flow from 3 to 2 will be OK. If you look at it, the relationship of 3 to 2 is the same as that of 1 to 2. Each is a loop, but with the containers connected by large-diameter pipe so that they're in effect a single container. Container 3 will try to maintain the same level as 2 (which is being "drained" by the return pump) just as 1 does.

Righty, I may very well put a 2nd valve after the tee. However, I have this exact return setup (without a 2nd valve) on my 29-gallon tank's single sump. The low-flow hose off of the tee can be used to regulate the main return down by bleeding some back into the sump. I leave the valve closed to maximize the flow to the main tank. The valve comes in very handy though for water changes. I just move the hose from the sump into a bucket, open the valve, and turn on the return pump. It produces a strong flow even without a 2nd valve, since that route doesn't have the high head pressure of the main return. There is a slight flow up to the main tank, but not much. It makes water changes very easy!

From my experience with the 29-gallon setup, I think the 2nd valve is unnecessary. I may put one though so I can shut it and achieve 100% flow for fast water changes.

I agree with the idea of putting float switches for safety. I intend to do so on the 29 as well.

So, in short, you guys think the latest version looks OK, right?

Also, any of you know the right sump depth for a TF1000 skimmer?

Thanks again!

 

[mountainbiker619]

maybe the pump sucking water in will actually help draw the water from sump 1 and 3.

 

[mattboy]

Hi;

Maybe I missed something, but why not use the idea of splitting the drain from the overflow into the skimmer and fuge? Use a ball or gate valve to regulate flow into the fuge. I'm currently building a sump/refugium with this principle, except in one big box. The drain from the tank goes through a tee, actually a 1"elbow with a 1/2" threaded side outlet. The smaller outlet feeds the fuge, the larger feeds the skimmer/media section, and both drain into the return area. It's a lot simpler, and has the following advantages:

1. No valves, etc on the return line. Maximum return to the tank.
2. Foolproof drain; if the side outlet (to fuge) gets clogged, because there is a ball valve in there, water simply diverts into the skimmer/media section. Also, it's really easy to regulate flow into the fuge, because it's coming from well above the sump.

HTH
Matt

 

[ems3411]

gbundersea has already stated he can't fit a large sump under the stand as it site.. I can feel for him on that one.

I have a 110 that only will allow a 20 gal sump to fit under it because of door placement and openings.... I am using your design and others like it to design a sump system to connect 2 sumps together and give me more room for my new euroreef skimmer that is close to splashing over my current sump. That one will have a baffle to keep the level consistant. This design will also to give me more room to allow for a refugium again with baffles and holes keping the water level consistant. before exiting stage right to the return pump.

Now I just have to figure out a way to draw it and share like gbundersea. (always looking for advice and experience)

 

[gbundersea]

I used Corel Photo-Paint to put the drawing together, but any paint program will do. I saved it as a jpg with reasonable compression to make the file size small.

Glad to hear I'm not the only one planning a multi-part sump. I hope my plans help you design yours. The feedback from others on this thread has been of great assistance to me.

 

[danmhippo]

You may want to put another safety drain from the fuge to the return with large diameter pipe (eg. 1"). The safety drain is just to make sure the refugium does not overflow if the lower drain is clogged (which I experienced a couple of times already. The loose strends of caulerpa clogged the drain). If you make the refugium tank to be taller than the return, that would be even safer.

Also, I believe in redundant setup. I would add another pump in the return with it's own hose returning water back to the tank. Again, this is just to make sure there are no flooding of the sumps.

 

[LA-Lawman]

ditto on D-hippos post...

better run a few test fills and power failures. before you install it...

 

[gbundersea]

The sump project suffered a setback thanks to my horrible experience with Jen's Saltwater Haven (jensalt.com.) I bought 3 acrylic sumps from them. In my opinion, the sumps were utterly defective and so poorly built as to be unusable. The edges were unfinished, the corners didn't line up, and the seams were unbelievably bad. Even the best seam was full of bubbles, and many were full of large gaps in the glue. In some spots, the gaps went all the way through! After Jensalt refused to refund my money or even acknowledge the problems, I actually broke them up and threw them away.

You can see all the details on my sump horror story site.

 

[Anonymous]

That is a shame. Sorry to hear that folks like that are even in business.

Good luck with your new containers.

Louey