Anyone interested in having photos of their fish published?
- Thread starter Terry B
- Start date
But the buck is almighty. Not that I necessarily disagree with you, but the issue isn't just about that buck, but also about having rights (in this case your right to own your own property in perpetuity, unless you've knowingly given that right to someone else) taken away from you. That's my own take on it, more than anything else.
Hey, there is a list of photographs I need for a job I'm doing, but if I hire someone to shoot the photos, I will have to pay them and that will cut into my profit, so.....
Or, we have a publication and we are in it to make a profit and put as little as possible into the product. In fact, we want you to work for free, so we can make more money.
Why is this such a difficult concept to understand?
Maybe my wife and kids will understand that I just love my job, and I don't need to get paid anymore.
It's not about the money, it's about putting food on the table!
Well, I gotta go to the market now and see how much food they will give me for free.
Done
Or, we have a publication and we are in it to make a profit and put as little as possible into the product. In fact, we want you to work for free, so we can make more money.
Why is this such a difficult concept to understand?
Maybe my wife and kids will understand that I just love my job, and I don't need to get paid anymore.
It's not about the money, it's about putting food on the table!
Well, I gotta go to the market now and see how much food they will give me for free.
Done
Canadian Dictionary of the English Language:
Myopic:
1. unable or unwilling to act prudently; shortsighted
2. lacking tolerance or understanding; narrow-minded
Wouldn't that be you? Seamaiden
All the guy was asking for of reefers were fricken pictures of their fish and you put himthrough the grinder.
This is a reef board not a commercial photographer board.
Myopic:
1. unable or unwilling to act prudently; shortsighted
2. lacking tolerance or understanding; narrow-minded
Wouldn't that be you? Seamaiden
All the guy was asking for of reefers were fricken pictures of their fish and you put himthrough the grinder.
This is a reef board not a commercial photographer board.
Well, I suppose it's all in how you view it, ain't it? You see (or, then again maybe you don't), I outlined my perspective, as someone who's had her artwork stolen. It was partly about the money, but what galls me more is the issue of copyrights.
I'm not the only one who feels this way, either, and I think we got some very good input on the issue from others who clearly know their stuff.
What's your argument?
Btw, my vision is 20/13, which is even better than 20/20.
I also scored very highly (in the upper 1%) in my reading comprehension tests.
I'm not the only one who feels this way, either, and I think we got some very good input on the issue from others who clearly know their stuff.
What's your argument?
Btw, my vision is 20/13, which is even better than 20/20.
I also scored very highly (in the upper 1%) in my reading comprehension tests.
Wow,all this over pictures of a fish......
"I've written for FAMA in the past and I would never write for them again. I actually lost money on the last article I wrote for them. The pittance I received 15 MONTHS after my last article was published didn't even cover the cost of duplicating my photos for the article. It's not worth the time or effort to put together a quality article. "....
this is what had me laughing about this whole thread,like there is money (real money) to be made in the fish authoring business,people jumping all over a guy that offers to add pics of your fish to his article,and people go on about money and copyrights.. :lol: ...man i cant stop laughing about this thread,i would be happier to see my fish pic in any mag or book for free then nickel and dime about it,HAHA,what a thread..."Hey dont copyright that pic of MY blue tang!"......"what?,theres millions of blue tangs out there?,but i want money for the pic of mine".....LOL....thanks for the laughs....Riot....
"I've written for FAMA in the past and I would never write for them again. I actually lost money on the last article I wrote for them. The pittance I received 15 MONTHS after my last article was published didn't even cover the cost of duplicating my photos for the article. It's not worth the time or effort to put together a quality article. "....
this is what had me laughing about this whole thread,like there is money (real money) to be made in the fish authoring business,people jumping all over a guy that offers to add pics of your fish to his article,and people go on about money and copyrights.. :lol: ...man i cant stop laughing about this thread,i would be happier to see my fish pic in any mag or book for free then nickel and dime about it,HAHA,what a thread..."Hey dont copyright that pic of MY blue tang!"......"what?,theres millions of blue tangs out there?,but i want money for the pic of mine".....LOL....thanks for the laughs....Riot....
Judge Judy is now in session.......
"after the dispute of who gets the rights to sell Osama t-shirts,we now have the case of the who makes the $ on the fish pic"......
"you honor,the defendant has made $3.00 profit on the picture of my fish and i want my share"......
"could you identify this fish?"....
"yes ma'am,he is a yellow tang,was caught off the Hawaiian Islands,a true one of a kind,i cannot believe that i am not getting some of the profit from the pic of my rare fish in an aquarium magazine"......
"a what magazine?".....
hehe,i can see it now...... :lol: ....Riot....
"after the dispute of who gets the rights to sell Osama t-shirts,we now have the case of the who makes the $ on the fish pic"......
"you honor,the defendant has made $3.00 profit on the picture of my fish and i want my share"......
"could you identify this fish?"....
"yes ma'am,he is a yellow tang,was caught off the Hawaiian Islands,a true one of a kind,i cannot believe that i am not getting some of the profit from the pic of my rare fish in an aquarium magazine"......
"a what magazine?".....
hehe,i can see it now...... :lol: ....Riot....
seamaiden":l6rvft08 said:
Seamaiden,
It's become clear to me that people either get the point of this thread or they don't, which is why I haven't jumped back into the argument until now. Perhaps it has something to do with age and responsibility? I also think some people have a hard time understanding that photos are tangible and potentially valuable property.
To me it's perfectly clear: If a "for-profit" company (in this case FAMA) is going to take my product or the fruits of my labor (in this case photos, written words, research work, etc.) and then sell them (in this case by collecting subscription, newstand and ad money), then I should be compensated accordingly. In addition, it should be clear that the photos or articles are limited to a single use. If you give away these things, theoretically they can be used as often as they want and to sell whatever they want. They can even be resold without compensating you. This happened to me a few years back. I was flipping through a magazine and saw one of my photos being used in an ad for a hydrometer. This company got the photo from a magazine. I had submitted it with an article some time before that. Does anyone think this was fair to me? To use my photo and words without my knowledge or permission, much less without any thought of compensating me? This isn't about greed or avarice; it's about what's fair, ethical and decent. Let's not confuse this with writing an article for the local aquarium society. I've written and given many articles and photos to society newsletters and hobbyist websites. I would never expect to be compensated for this, but commercial publications are a different story. I don’t know how to explain it any better.
Greg
GSchiemer":2ttgdmm7 said:
Greg,
Here is the difference... There are people who take photographs, and there are people who take snapshots. Photographers usually charge for their work, and do everything in their power to maintain ownership and control of the image.
Snapshooters, who may be talented, are not ever looking for money. If they have an image, they would gladly donate it, just for the novelty of seeing their name in print.
I've seen some serious discussions on this very topic on underwater photography mailing lists. What snapshooters do not realize is that they hurt someone every time they give away their content for free to a commercial publication. People need to put themselves into another's place here: How would you like it if your only way of earning money suddenly became untenable? And I'm not talking because the industry disappeared due to technical change, but because some else came along and decided to do it for free?
Sorry Mr. Schiemer, we have to let you go from the job site because Joe and Bubba here are going to mix and pour the concrete for the fun of it!
Sorry, Mr. Schiemer, Babs here is going to work the fryer because she likes hot environments, and her skin is too dry anyway. It will improve her complexion, and she is paying us to man your old post!
How do you get the people to realize that it effects others? I wish I knew.
For those that wish to take a serious look at the issues, get a copy of John Shaw's Business of Nature Photography. This is a serious business, and copyright infringement is a serious infraction. If I had one of my images stolen and used commercially I would have filed suit... And before you flame away people, the issue is not about money- IT IS ABOUT THEFT!
Regards.
Mike Kirda
Talk about missing the point, some of you seem to confuse me with FAMA or some other magazine. I personally don't give a rats #ss if the critics think I am going to make money on the photos it doesn't change the facts.
First of all, I am not making any money on anyone’s photos. I get paid the same for my articles with or without your pictures. Some of people here don't seem to grasp this. I simply put people in direct contact with someone that may use their picture in my article or someone else's article for that matter. I have already put some people in direct contact and what happens after that is up to them. If any of the magazines is willing to pay for the photos so much the better. I have nothing to do with paying you for the photos and I get NOTHING for them either. I am not selling subscriptions or gaining advertising. Does someone think that I get paid if they buy a subscription to a magazine? Do I get paid anything for advertising products in the magazine? I am simply the author of some articles that offered to help those that would be interested. I get paid for what I write and nothing else.
Secondly, I stated right up front that people should not expect to get paid. If a publisher wishes to pay them that is fine with me. Nobody here has been told to expect payment. If you want to get paid work that out for yourself and leave me out of it.
What is ironic about this is that the people running another large message board read this thread and emailed me about it. They said that they thought the treatment I got here is ridiculous and told me that I can post a thread making the same offer that I made here and they will not hassle me for it. If you don’t want to partake then please do not. If someone wants to have a photo published under the circumstances outlined then I think that is for them to decide.
Terry B
First of all, I am not making any money on anyone’s photos. I get paid the same for my articles with or without your pictures. Some of people here don't seem to grasp this. I simply put people in direct contact with someone that may use their picture in my article or someone else's article for that matter. I have already put some people in direct contact and what happens after that is up to them. If any of the magazines is willing to pay for the photos so much the better. I have nothing to do with paying you for the photos and I get NOTHING for them either. I am not selling subscriptions or gaining advertising. Does someone think that I get paid if they buy a subscription to a magazine? Do I get paid anything for advertising products in the magazine? I am simply the author of some articles that offered to help those that would be interested. I get paid for what I write and nothing else.
Secondly, I stated right up front that people should not expect to get paid. If a publisher wishes to pay them that is fine with me. Nobody here has been told to expect payment. If you want to get paid work that out for yourself and leave me out of it.
What is ironic about this is that the people running another large message board read this thread and emailed me about it. They said that they thought the treatment I got here is ridiculous and told me that I can post a thread making the same offer that I made here and they will not hassle me for it. If you don’t want to partake then please do not. If someone wants to have a photo published under the circumstances outlined then I think that is for them to decide.
Terry B
Hey Terry, this is SPSfreak100 from the "Other Board."
I can tell everyone that Terry is not making any money off these photo's. He set me up directly with FAMA and the people working on the magazine to get my photo of the Blue Hippo Tang on the magazine. My name was also included for photo credit. I think we should stop the childish acts, and simply leave the thread for the people who actually want to submit photo's. If you don't want to submit any photo's, you don't have to. It's up to you.
Graham
I can tell everyone that Terry is not making any money off these photo's. He set me up directly with FAMA and the people working on the magazine to get my photo of the Blue Hippo Tang on the magazine. My name was also included for photo credit. I think we should stop the childish acts, and simply leave the thread for the people who actually want to submit photo's. If you don't want to submit any photo's, you don't have to. It's up to you.
Graham
For what it's worth, Terry, I don't "run" this board. Nor do I care what others running any other board (save the other one I'm associated with...but it's owned by an old friend, I'm fairly confident I know where he stands--he copyrights all his work) may think of my feelings or beliefs. I see nothing wrong with alerting people to certain issues of which they may not be aware. Why is that a problem? What is galling me is that I get the distinct feeling you'd rather squelch me. "Let's just keep this hush-hush," is the phrase that comes to mind.
I really thought I'd made my own position clear, and I, for one, very much appreciate the input of GSchiemer and mkirda. I do believe that they've both hit the nail on the head, especially when considering that the publications do profit. Why would it have to be at anyone's expense? Yes, believe it or not, there are indeed people who make their entire livings by the artwork they produce, no matter the medium. I resent your belittlement (and that of others) of this means of making a decent living. You do get paid for your writings, yes? Well, how can you not extrapolate one form of work for another?
Greg has hit the nail on the head when he said...
You got a "hard time" from me because you were not truthful with people when you started this thread. I won't disagree with you that it is up to someone to decide whether or not they wish to be taken advantage of (yes, this is exactly how I see it), but I won't believe for a minute that they can make that decision rationally without having ALL pertinent information--information you left out.
I stand by my own convictions, honesty, as well as integrity (all of which I hold quite dear). Again, as was just pointed out, this IS an issue of ethics, to its very core.
I really thought I'd made my own position clear, and I, for one, very much appreciate the input of GSchiemer and mkirda. I do believe that they've both hit the nail on the head, especially when considering that the publications do profit. Why would it have to be at anyone's expense? Yes, believe it or not, there are indeed people who make their entire livings by the artwork they produce, no matter the medium. I resent your belittlement (and that of others) of this means of making a decent living. You do get paid for your writings, yes? Well, how can you not extrapolate one form of work for another?
Greg has hit the nail on the head when he said...
And I cannot help but wonder what the people who just don't get it would deign worthy of payment. Does it have to be the sweat of my brow? I have already stated that I've had my own hard work stolen out from under me, and now I see I'm not the only one. I find it completely crass to insinuate that mine (or anyone's) is not worth anything simply because others would give theirs away.
You got a "hard time" from me because you were not truthful with people when you started this thread. I won't disagree with you that it is up to someone to decide whether or not they wish to be taken advantage of (yes, this is exactly how I see it), but I won't believe for a minute that they can make that decision rationally without having ALL pertinent information--information you left out.
I stand by my own convictions, honesty, as well as integrity (all of which I hold quite dear). Again, as was just pointed out, this IS an issue of ethics, to its very core.
Terry B":3p5whhy9 said:
If you get paid the same with or with out a photo attached to your article, then why do you need the photos? There must be a reason for you to go threw all the trouble setting up everyone who submits a photo to you with the publisher.
It seems to me that the “photos” will help you “sell” your articles to the publisher. And if the photos help you “sell” your articles to the publisher, then yes you are making money off of them.
Could it be that if you submit an article that is mediocre in value to a publisher, with no interesting photos to liven up the publication, it would probably be rejected? While the same article loaded with some nice photos would be accepted, as it adds more “sale appeal” to the article?
And I also agree, the only thing to be gained by giving photos to a publisher who is clearly making money off of them, (and probably in the fine print they claim all rights to any photo submitted) is to put another professional photographer out of work..
Pineapple House":1qu4aml7 said:
Graham,
How much is FAMA going to pay you for use of your photo in their magazine? And how much do I have to pay FAMA to see your photo in their magazine? Get the point?
Also, I'm going to sell a new reef additive and I know I can sell more of it if I use your hippo tang picture on every label. I'm going to have FAMA send it to me; not tell you and not pay you for using it. All of that is okay? Right?
BTW, what do you do for a living? Oh, you repair automobiles. Well please send the next person that comes into your shop to me. I enjoy fixing cars and I'll do it for free, parts and labor included! And tell your friend that manufactures widgets in his basement to send all he can make to me for free. I know plenty of people that will pay for them. Of course, I won't be sending your friend any money for his efforts, but I will print his name on every widget I sell. He'll be very proud.
People: Sharing pictures with your friends on a bulletin board is one thing. Donating them to a commercial publication that is going to turn around and sell them is just plain stupid! Not to mention it hurts people that do this for a living. BTW, I don't do this for a living. If I did, I'd starve, but I have friends that do make a living from their photography and writing, such as Scott Michael, and it's not fair to those people.
Greg
Well, no sense in beating a dead horse. Just take a look at the first message and if you don't see why people are upset, then take a long look and think about the last few messages of this thread.
There is a lack of understanding of intellectual property.
For the writers out there, I don't think you would be very happy if I put out an ad looking for free articles to go with my photos that I was getting paid for.
I certainly did not get into art for the money and to those who are offended by America's "obsession with money", please send me your cash!
There is a lack of understanding of intellectual property.
For the writers out there, I don't think you would be very happy if I put out an ad looking for free articles to go with my photos that I was getting paid for.
I certainly did not get into art for the money and to those who are offended by America's "obsession with money", please send me your cash!
Sponsor Reefs
We're a FREE website, and we exist because of hobbyists like YOU who help us run this community.
Click here to sponsor $10:
