Finalizing plans for 800 gallon shed refugium

[npaden]

Well, if everything goes well I would like to start work on the shed and refugium the first part of August.

Here are my tentative plans:

I'm debating whether to just use cinderblock footings around the shed and using cinderblock in the ground for the refugium or to go ahead and have a cement slab poured.

Also debating on whether to run the plumbing underground to the shed or to run it above ground (it would be under a porch) and just insulate it.

I want to put the refugium in the ground to allow for better gravity drain from the sump down to the shed refugium. I feel that if it is insulated well it shouldn't be that hard to heat and cool.

As far as skylights go, I would like to just use some type of thick plastic that I could just silicone into place or something rather than spend several hundred dollars on a skylight. I could even make the entire roof a skylight if that would be easier and less likely to cause leaking problems. We get some fairly high winds here but the shed would be up near the house and should be somewhat sheltered by that. It will miss the hot south sun but would get plenty of the northern sun.

Another thing I would like input on is whether adding this would be worth it or not. I just can't seem to limit my fish that I keep in my 415 and seem to get the bioload overstocked. Haven't had problems with fighting, etc. because I try to add fish that like different areas but have struggled with nutrients as a result of the high bioload.

The shed would also allow for me to move all my "fish junk" out of the garage and laundry room and that will make the wife happy.

I could also size the refugium down if it sounds to large to maintain and heat/cool etc. but I wanted to go ahead and make it as large as possible.

Well that should get things started. Thanks in advance for any comments, suggestions, etc.

Nathan

 

[Anonymous]

I LOVE IT! I think that thing is gonna rock, mate.

 

[madrefkepr]

Awesome!

My personal thoughts: I would pour a slab, as I have never been a big fan of using block for anything. I would also run the plumbing underground since you are in a climate where it is more practical than here in Minnesota. The reason being temperatures below ground will not swing as rapidly as above ground. Even if you insulate the pipes, I think you are still likely to see more temp fluctuations than if you buried them.I would also bury a couple of extra lines at the same time, just because you never know what you might want to add later. Will save you the work of digging again. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Anonymous]

Cool plans - ditto what madrefkpr said about running the pipes in ground. Not so much for the freeze but for the heat - not sure how well insulated they will be but water heats up pretty quick outside down here in Austin I imagine its as bad in Lubbock.

Might be kind of far out but maybe do a DIY solatube type thing in lieu of a skylight - not sure how focused you want the light but i would think just some good clear PVC skylights would be fine.

Oh yeah - pour a slab too and let it settle for at least a month or two before you build the shed on it.

 

[Anonymous]

solatubes came to my mind as well.

 

[Bleeding Blue]

Four things come to mind.

1)Gosh darn it I would have already been jealous enough over the 450g, but now I am green with envy. I say do it.

2) At work we have a bunch of seawater tables that were placed on cinder blocks ~10 years ago, and the years of saltwater corrosion and the weight of the seawater has made them crumble to almost nothing.

3) You might want to think about pumping the water to the refugium, and then letting gravity feed it back to the main system. I say this, because I believe that if the pods and such have to go through fewer pumps, there will be a much higher survival rate, and the more effective the fuge will be. (Not that you are too worried about effectiveness in 800G.)

4) What are solartubes?

Mike

 

[Anonymous]

I just have to say : SWEET MERCIFUL CRAP!

Seriously, how is such a thing possible? Do you have to live in a warm climate to keep the pipes from freezing, or what?

Peace,

Chip

 

[dgasmd]

npaden:

The idea sounds great. I personally would do things slightly different and I'll give you my reasons so they hopefully help somewhat.

**I would have the drain from the sump to new refugium be pumped into the refugium and then have the refugium drain by gravity into the sump.
Reason: if the overflow from the tank gets clogged from some supernatural reason, only so much water will leave your sump, so worst case scenario you burn a pump. This could be prevented by putting the pump on a reversed float switch to cut the power of the switch drops too much. The refugium will hold all its water. If you did it the other way around, you would have 800 gal in your house floor.

**I would leave all the pipes above ground.
Reason: God forbid you would ever have to redo one of those things for whatever reason it may be. Also, it simplify things. As far as the temparature, you'll be surprised to find how much cooling you can do with a couple of large farns in the shed and a bit of shade over the shed. That much water, especially witht he tank inside the house under AC, will hold its temperature remarkably well. I have a 560 gal system. The tank (360) is inside the house (air conditioned) and the other 200 gal are in the garage as sump and refugium. The garage is hot as heck with only one box fan blowing air around with the garage door open. Max temp as lights go off in 81 and by morning time it is back to 79 until lights come on again. I doubt you will need much more than a couple of 500 watt heaters in the winter.

**I would make the refugium by just digginf in the ground and using wood to make walls to the hole, then, just put int he pond liner.
Reason: Much simpler, cheapper, and will hold the temperature a bit better.

Hope that helps and if you go forth with it, please take tons of pictures and post them here.

Alberto

 

[Anonymous]

You might consider southfacing windows instead of skylights. That way you will get more winter light, less hot summer light.

 

[DustinDorton]

Nate, that sounds like a whole lot of trouble! Is the sump plexi or acrylic? Im wondering how you are going to add in the new bulkheads.
How far is the refugium going to be from the tank? Do you know anything about your ground temperatures in the summer and winter?

Have you weighed out the pros/cons for this? Its going to be more expensive to heat and cool. A 10% water change is going to cost you $30. You might also need more skimming.

 

[esmithiii]

Seriously, how is such a thing possible? Do you have to live in a warm climate to keep the pipes from freezing, or what?

Remember that the water is always flowing from the main tank (79F-81F) inside to the heated refugium in the shed. I wouldn't freeze even in Siberia (which is almost as cold as Rome, NY) Footnote: I lived in Syracuse, NY (we called it Sibericuse) and know first-hand how cold it gets.

Ernie

 

[npaden]

Nate, that sounds like a whole lot of trouble! Have you weighed out the pros/cons for this?

That's what I'm attempting to do with this thread. Was hoping for some input on what a large refugium like this might do for the overall health of the system.

I think the heating and cooling won't be as bad as it sounds. Actually heating will use the most energy but my electricity is on sale in the winter and costs right at 4 cents per kwh.

The solartubes would be quite a bit more expensive than using the corragated plastic sheeting material that they use for the more sturdy type of greenhouses, but these would also be harder to heat and cool I guess.

I want the shed refugium to be the low spot in the system so that any catastrophic failures would result in a flood out in the shed rather than in the house. If the drain from the sump to the shed refugium failed the pump intake in the refugium would be set so that only about 40 or 50 gallons would pump out of the refugium before the pump would start sucking air - the intake won't be at the very bottom of the refugium.

As far as holding the temperature, I wasn't really sure which would be best, cement with insulation inside of it or just the ground with the pond liner?

I have started to give consideration to just taking the sump out of the system and having just a single 2" drain straight from the display out to the shed refugium. I realize that I may need additional skimming for the system.

I appreciate the input so far, please keep them coming.

Thanks, Nathan

 

[esmithiii]

I think that it is a great idea if you are up to the challenge. I think the extra water volume will do wonders for your system. Do you plan on having caulerpa in the refugium? I would consider additional lighting and use the extra space for grow out and then sell some frags, man! My concern would simply be enough lighting for macros and heat. Cold temps would not be my primary concern, personally. Heaters are inexpensive and with your lighting I don't think it will be a problem.

I personally would bury the piping. If you use 2" pvc you shouldn't have a problem with it ever clogging.

 

[jetor]

Just along for the ride

 

[Anonymous]

#1....Dan Conner has a good bit there


#2....still, the solatube thing sounds best to me. they are relatively cheap compared to skylights and even better when weighing the insulating factor they would enable.

i hear you on the cheap electricity but why spend the dough on a chiller or additional heaters if insulation might do the job.
also i might have a completely different thing envisioned here. this will be solely for the refugium right? no standing room or anything? that is what i am thinking of.

 

[npaden]

The plan is for the shed to be a 8' X 12' and 8' tall.

The south windows wouldn't work in my situation as current plan is for the shed to be about 6' north of my 2 story garage.

I've found some 9" generic solatubes at Home Depot for around $150 each. That is in addition to the full roof that they would be installed in. I've looked into these but would need at least 3 to do much good vs. less than $100 for enough corragated greenhouse panels to do the entire roof.

One option that I've thought of is putting the rigid pink insulation sheets (they come about 2" thick) on the roof with cut outs where I want to focus the light then putting the corragated greenhouse panels on top of that. This would limit the heat/cool lost through the roof but still be effective for minimizing leaks, etc.

Thanks and keep the ideas coming!

 

[Anonymous]

your right they are spendy 8O

i swear i paid forty bucks a piece about five years ago.
here is a cheaper knockoff in case you want to consider it. still $80.

http://www.roofvent.com/specials.html

 

[npaden]

Okay, thanks for the ideas. I found an online supplier for polycarbonate panels in the 16mm thickness for $130 each for a 4' X 10' clear panel. Biggest drawback is they want about $130 to ship them!

I'm about set on all the details with the exception of the biggest issue of whether it is going to be worth the hassle or not. Guess not many people out there are running a refugium/sump that is twice as big as their display setup but that's really what I'm down to looking for input on. Will trippling my water volume be beneficial for the critters in my display tank or not?

Thanks, Nathan

 

[Anonymous]

Solatube usually is not a good idea, particular in a shred.

Is the polycarbonate panels channeled? It is often used in green houses, and have a much better insulation property than other alternatives.

 

[npaden]

Yes, I found some 5mm ones for $40 each and now these 16mm ones for $130 each both at greenhouse places. They have 78% light transferance and actually the 16mm ones do a fairly good job of insulating.

Just chatting with some folks in #reefs I may end up sizing down my refugium and leave some more room in the shed for propagation setups and other types of stuff rather than taking up over 50% of the floor space with a single refugium. Maybe do a 4' X 4' X 4' refugium and leave the rest of the space for hardware and other items.

Still thinking about it!

Thanks, for the input.