Siphon Overflow Myths?

[jordanphulet]

I'm trying to figure out why there is so much pressure against siphon overflows in this hobby. I've talked to numerous people who seem to think that if you dont have a drilled tank your just headed for trouble. I would like to know what you think on this. I actually prefer siphon overflows for several reasons.
- Easy to install (dont have to drill anything or worry about tempered glass)
- Easy to clean; you can take the whole thing off if you really need to.
- Nothing sticking out of the bottom of your tank so you dont have to worry about making a hole in your stand
- Generally take up less room (you dont have a division going clear to the bottom of the tank, just a skim box at the top.
- You can move it; with a built in overflow if you buy the tank and decide you want to set it up in THIS corner you kinda hope the overflow is on the right side so you dont have to look at it all the time.
- Ability to upgrade; if you arent pulling enough water down you can always get a new siphon overflow or increase the diameter of the return and siphon, with a drilled tank its not too easy to make bigger holes when the tank is full. You could even have two siphon overflows if you decide that one isnt cutting it.

Anyway thats just a few things i could think of, if anyone has any reason not to use siphon overflows please post them I would be interested.

 

[Anonymous]

I liked siphons till my floor got soaked a couple times, NEVER again.

>- Nothing sticking out of the bottom of your tank so you dont have to worry about making a hole in your stand

I drill the back of the tank, so there's nothign sticking out the bottom.

>- Generally take up less room (you dont have a division going clear to the bottom of the tank, just a skim box at the top.

If you drill top corner, you can use a small overflow box and an external duroso

 

[jordanphulet]

Mega, some good points; why did your siphon fail?

 

[Anonymous]

Lost siphon once, flooded pretty bad

had a snail get in it once, and it couldnt keep up, eventually water on the floor

 

[jordanphulet]

Do you know why you lost siphon, the only reasons i could think are a blockage, like a snail, or accumulation of air in the U tube. Preventing a snail getting into the overflow is easy enough and if you have enough flow you shouldnt have any air accumulate in the tube. What does everyone else think?

 

[Anonymous]

Snail climbed over the box and into the tube, with my standpipe setup I now use, the diameter is large enough to handle turbo snails.

Air built up in the U tube which caused a siphon break.

As I stated before, never again will I use one, they are also loud, unless you modify them with an external duroso standpipe

 

[Anonymous]

I had a CPR overflow on my last tank.

No problems, but I think I was lucky. When I took the tank down, the overflow had a bunch of hard, difficult-to-clean crud built up in it.

Also, I had to constantly run one of those air-sucking powerheads attached to the siphon to keep the siphon from breaking. Something else to go wrong...

On my current (glass) tank, I went through the hassle of getting the upper back corner drilled. Best move I ever made - nice compact PVC drain piping & no problems to date - plus I can sleep well at night!

 

[Anonymous]

I have used them, and maybe on a small tank they are ok. But when you start to talk about large reef tanks the most reliable solution is always going to be the best one. External overflows are less reliable, however you wash it.

Easy to install (dont have to drill anything or worry about tempered glass)
I find the endless worry about maintaining syphon etc much more annoying than drilling a tank one time. Since I don't drill my own tanks anyway, this really isn't a hassle.

- Easy to clean; you can take the whole thing off if you really need to.
I guess, but I can just lift out my Durso if I need to. I can use the regular aquarium magnet on the outside walls. No problem.

- Nothing sticking out of the bottom of your tank so you dont have to worry about making a hole in your stand
As mentioned, you can do the back

- Generally take up less room (you dont have a division going clear to the bottom of the tank, just a skim box at the top.
Drilled tanks can be engineered myriad ways. No reason for it to go to the bottom.

- You can move it; with a built in overflow if you buy the tank and decide you want to set it up in THIS corner you kinda hope the overflow is on the right side so you dont have to look at it all the time.
Thats true, altho a drilled overflow can be in the middle. My reefs are pretty permenant, I don't plan on moving them though.

- Ability to upgrade; if you arent pulling enough water down you can always get a new siphon overflow or increase the diameter of the return and siphon, with a drilled tank its not too easy to make bigger holes when the tank is full. You could even have two siphon overflows if you decide that one isnt cutting it.
Hey, no reason you can't add a syphon overflow to a drilled system, so this isn't really an advantage. I find increasing flow works better when its not run through the sump anyway.

 

[esmithiii]

My 55 spilled over more than once. It is a mess, and causes marital stress above and beyond. The extra cost of a reef-ready tank was well worth the peace of mind. I have a 50g sump on my 180. That's a lot of water on my floor if the syphon fails.

As for another con against overflow boxes, they are unsightly and if you hang them on the back, you cannot put the tank back up against a wall.

I have never needed to clean my standpipe in my pre-drilled, AGA reef ready 180 in the three+ years I ran it. If I ever did, I could pull it out the top and clean it without even turning my pumps off.

Just my opinion. I would NEVER go back to an overflow box again.

Ernie

 

[dgasmd]

These things do get a bad rap, but planning is the key. I ran them for 11 years and never once had any problems whatsoever!! 8O What I did do was do some preventive measures. I had an overlfow box that was not dependant on a powerhead. That in my book is begging for failure. I used a overflow box that would handle twice volume I needed to move through it. I then, got an extra one and installed it. Having both run together and some preventive maintenance were the key for me I think. They always had enough flow to prevent them from accumulating a ton of air. I also placed the U tube strategicly so they would suck up the least amount of bubbles. Once a week while doing tank maintenance I would disconnect one of the U tubes. That would give the other a good flush and allow some of the minor stuff that had built in a week to be flushed into the sump. Did I get a snail to crawl over the skimming box and ito one of the U tubes? Yes, plenty of times. That is where the second box came in place. Could the 2 of them get clogged at the same time? Possible? Yes. Likely? NO!

If I had the choice from the begining, I would certainly get a tank already drilled. The extra cost is about the same or less than the cost of the 2 overflow boxes. However, I already had the tank that was not drilled and was not about to mess with it.

Can it be done safely and easily? Yes, you just have to plan for it. And even with all the planning in the world, things will happen regardless of drilling or not.

 

[jordanphulet]

Thanks for all the input, some good points have been made about drilled tanks that I never thought of, keep em coming.

 

[liquid]

Here's some pretty good threads from the Reefkeepers email list: http://www.escribe.com/pets/reefkeepers ... flow+flood

Shane

 

[bdelaney]

I've been using a hang-on overflow for many years. I've never had a problem. A quality overflow is not as prone to failure as people think. The U-tube designs like the ones made by lifereef seem to be the most reliable. A simple Stockman modification with some PVC makes them very silent.

My biggest problem with the hang-on overflow is the big box that hangs into the tank. It takes up a lot of tank space and you can't really hide it that well. My next tank will be drilled for this reason.

 

[jandree22]

I have a 75gal tempered glass tank. I've had it for a while, but I'm redoing it into a reef this time around. So far all it's got in it is about 100lbs of southdown, so I can easily empty it out if need be. Because it's tempered, there's no way to drill it w/o it shattering, right? So in other words, I have no choice but an overflow box?? I wish I'd have reef ready, but I'd rather not spend another fortune on a new 75 :roll: How readily can glass shops perform the task? I understand that many tanks that are tempered are only so on the bottom pane of glass, so this means the sides can be drilled easier? Do I have ANY options!? :?

 

[liquid]

Normally when the tank manufacturer mentions that the tank is made of tempered glass, it's only the bottom that's tempered. I'd recommend calling your tank manufacturer and verifying this as if this is the case, you can drill the side of your tank instead.

Shane

 

[jandree22]

haha, just emailed Perfecto Manufacturing with that exact question... we'll see, thanks

 

[LFS42]

I have a 75gal tempered glass tank. I've had it for a while, but I'm redoing it into a reef this time around. So far all it's got in it is about 100lbs of southdown, so I can easily empty it out if need be. Because it's tempered, there's no way to drill it w/o it shattering, right? So in other words, I have no choice but an overflow box?? I wish I'd have reef ready, but I'd rather not spend another fortune on a new 75 :roll: How readily can glass shops perform the task? I understand that many tanks that are tempered are only so on the bottom pane of glass, so this means the sides can be drilled easier? Do I have ANY options!? :?

All the perfecto 55's I sell are tempered on all sides.
I would think the 75 is the same way.
So the options are:
get a different 75 (non-tempered)
or
use a siphon overflow box.

My 2 cents are
drill the tank if you can, it's worth it.
(1) Overflow boxes are too loud
(2) I couldn't sleep with the thought of a siphon breaking.
(3) You need to clean the tubes more often (more work)
(4) It's much cheaper to drill the tank
(5) A 90 deg pvc elbow is all that's needed, less room than a box in the corner

I acually bought a drill and did it myself too.
Then I did it for a couple people and the drill paid for itself.

 

[xrunner123]

With the hang on overflows if you have had floods then there is something wrong with YOUR sump design.

I have a lifereef overflow on my 125 with a 30gal or so sump.

1) My design is such that if I remove my U-tubes the amount of water that gets pumped back into the tank will NOT overflow the tank

2) If I loose power the amount of water going to sump does not overflow sump. Return lines have cyphin break holes and well of course the overflow has the inside box.

Always rely on physics an you will be on top.

 

[redawg]

mines about the same xrunner.. only 125 with a 20 gal refuge and 20 gal sump.. won't overflow either way.. would burn out 3 pumps though =(

 

[esmithiii]

Xrunner-

OK, so the tank doesn't overflow because you have a tiny sump, but your return pump does burn up from running dry. This is somehow not a problem?

Bottom line is I feel safe with my reef-ready tank. I didn't with my overflow box. I ran the overflow box over a year without a problem until one day boom, overflow. I cleaned everything out and two days later wet carpet, pissed off wife. Never again.

Ernie