How do you make a puffer fish puff?
- Thread starter Reef_Monkey
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clarionreef
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Supergenius,
There should be no fear of wandering off a 'smaller topic' into relevance.
The core of the topic became a discussion at the very heart of the matter of the ethics of fish keeping and care. So whats wrong with that?
Ever have a date that wandered off into marriage?
Many debates and discussions have an end to them ie. the courts decision, the election of the top candidate or ballot issue, dads final word etc. Others are exercises in the examination of our own value systems. Many minds are changed in public forum...the open ones anyway. If there are closed minds around, they end up defining themselves as such and get the lack of respect they warrant.
The futility of discussion and argumentation seems to be your notion and thank God its off base.
There have been figures thruout history that see no point in debate....Hitler, Stalin, Saddam, etc. We are not born with minds made up. Opinions evolve and they evolve better in open forum and freewheeling discussion as opposed to lack of it.
Too much discussion? I fear the lack of it.
Sincerely, Steve
PS.
The general forum here seems to have a healthier debate atmosphere than the Industry behind the Hobby one! 4,000 plus views on the puffer pinching piece...wow! If we ever get that many on the NET FUND drive we could solve some problems as well as discuss them
There should be no fear of wandering off a 'smaller topic' into relevance.
The core of the topic became a discussion at the very heart of the matter of the ethics of fish keeping and care. So whats wrong with that?
Ever have a date that wandered off into marriage?
Many debates and discussions have an end to them ie. the courts decision, the election of the top candidate or ballot issue, dads final word etc. Others are exercises in the examination of our own value systems. Many minds are changed in public forum...the open ones anyway. If there are closed minds around, they end up defining themselves as such and get the lack of respect they warrant.
The futility of discussion and argumentation seems to be your notion and thank God its off base.
There have been figures thruout history that see no point in debate....Hitler, Stalin, Saddam, etc. We are not born with minds made up. Opinions evolve and they evolve better in open forum and freewheeling discussion as opposed to lack of it.
Too much discussion? I fear the lack of it.
Sincerely, Steve
PS.
The general forum here seems to have a healthier debate atmosphere than the Industry behind the Hobby one! 4,000 plus views on the puffer pinching piece...wow! If we ever get that many on the NET FUND drive we could solve some problems as well as discuss them
Supergenius74":uwjxjjdp said:
If you aren't interested in the thread or where it has gone, I am not sure why you are reading it and posting to it (throwing it further into 'left field').
Some find this discussion interesting and think it does have real world effects. Others don't. That is great, because the more diverse our discussions, the healthier our tanks, and RDO in general, will be.
I am not sure why you feel the need to insult people just because they are having a discussion that you don't like. Instead of putting people down for talking about something you have no interest in, I think the reefing community would be better served if you started a thread you are interested in.
And if you do, wouldn't you like it better if others didn't not insult you for discussing it?
Sorry I guess I'm out of line here a bit, I need to keep my opinions to myself. It's not the original thread I was commenting about, It was the way people in general seemed to be just arguing just to argue, I have problems with that. I see it as a huge inefficeny and things that are inefficient drive me nuts, I guess thats why I am a process engineer at my job, anyways, sorry to make waves in an already turbulant discussion.
No harm done. It's your opinion and I'm glad you shared it FWIW, I don't think anyone is arguing just for the sake of arguing. This is simply what critical thinkers do, and we're saints here compared to academia :lol: I think a lot of great ideas have been laid out for people to mull over, and even if we don't come to an agreement, I for one feel I've gained new perspectives on the ethics of reefkeeping. Again, your opinions may vary, and the beautiful part about our community is you're free to choose how you want to spend your time here
FWIW, I don't think anyone is arguing just for the sake of arguing. This is simply what critical thinkers do, and we're saints here compared to academia :lol: I think a lot of great ideas have been laid out for people to mull over, and even if we don't come to an agreement, I for one feel I've gained new perspectives on the ethics of reefkeeping. Again, your opinions may vary, and the beautiful part about our community is you're free to choose how you want to spend your time here clarionreef
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Genius,
Ever see Monty Pythons Argument clinic? Where the twits goes in an buy an argument...but wanders into the 'abuse' department by mistake.
"2 plus 2 equals four. No it doesn't...Yes it does...No it doesn't...Yes it does.
You're not arguing...Yes I am...No you're not...Yes I am! etc."
"An argument is a collected series of statements intended to establish a central proposition..." No its not! Yes it is! No its not!"
and then...
I'm leaving! No you're not! Yes I am...No you're not! ad infinitum..
IS THAT HOW YOU SEE THE FORUM SOMETIMES? I DO...BUT THERE IS NO TELLING WHEN SOME MEANING AND RELEVANCE WILL BREAK OUT!
[yes there is...no there isn't...]
Steve
Ever see Monty Pythons Argument clinic? Where the twits goes in an buy an argument...but wanders into the 'abuse' department by mistake.
"2 plus 2 equals four. No it doesn't...Yes it does...No it doesn't...Yes it does.
You're not arguing...Yes I am...No you're not...Yes I am! etc."
"An argument is a collected series of statements intended to establish a central proposition..." No its not! Yes it is! No its not!"
and then...
I'm leaving! No you're not! Yes I am...No you're not! ad infinitum..
IS THAT HOW YOU SEE THE FORUM SOMETIMES? I DO...BUT THERE IS NO TELLING WHEN SOME MEANING AND RELEVANCE WILL BREAK OUT!
[yes there is...no there isn't...]
Steve
Yeah I love MP, got the dvd collection for christmas, I see what your saying and thats exactly what I was talking about. I have been coming here for over a year and consider it and my old site when i was really into freshwater (tropicalfishcentre) as the best sources for information on our hobby that I have ever found, nothing compares to these forums, they are not tainted by the commercial side or some "experts" opinion, this is the real world and what really happens, I have a very high respect for this place and when people use up space just to argue then I see it as a waste. I know we gotta have some of this to get the really valuable info I just wish it was more cut and dry, don't get me wrong , hearing differnet opinions is good and from a scientific standpoint you need to think "outside the box" and try to hypothisize many differnt reasons for the correct answer but sometimes it just seems a bit over-bloated. I guess alot of people see this like a bar or coffe shop, people just sittin around talking and "arguing" over different ideas, I see it as the "library of congress" for reefkeeping, but to each his own.
Yo James, thanks- and oops, I guess I should put my name in my sig now. :lol: I did that site for my friend Jess... I'll pass the word on cause she did the photos...
On another note, I feel obliged to get back on topic: I thought this was an excellent thread. Sure, some of the involved arguing, emotions, and plain old misunderstandings made me a little queasy- but I read the whole thing. There was a lot of very interesting first hand info, even after page 3
I was disappointed that no one argued that besides being just for our kicks, keeping our aquariums and their inhabitants is an inspiring and educational experience. If I had a pufferfish I would want to see it puff, but I wouldn't want to cause it physical harm or abuse it by doing party tricks. I would want to observe it, provide for it and treat it with respect.
I'm getting the impression that while being as sensitive as any saltwater fish, these fellas can tolerate a friendly tug, if one is wary of the real dangers of air bubbles. It wouldn't be as bad as say, demonstrating the defense mechanism of those lizards that can leave their tail behind if it's caught by it. Still, who's to say what that feels like to the lizard?
On another note, I feel obliged to get back on topic: I thought this was an excellent thread. Sure, some of the involved arguing, emotions, and plain old misunderstandings made me a little queasy- but I read the whole thing. There was a lot of very interesting first hand info, even after page 3
I was disappointed that no one argued that besides being just for our kicks, keeping our aquariums and their inhabitants is an inspiring and educational experience. If I had a pufferfish I would want to see it puff, but I wouldn't want to cause it physical harm or abuse it by doing party tricks. I would want to observe it, provide for it and treat it with respect.
I'm getting the impression that while being as sensitive as any saltwater fish, these fellas can tolerate a friendly tug, if one is wary of the real dangers of air bubbles. It wouldn't be as bad as say, demonstrating the defense mechanism of those lizards that can leave their tail behind if it's caught by it. Still, who's to say what that feels like to the lizard?
dizzy":fvr702c2 said:
Mitch,
Graham was waiting for the song to break into 3-part harmony, which it does right after the beginning 'dialogue' between Crosby & Stills. I had the experience of very young hippie parents, and they bought this album when it was new. I was 8 years old and I quickly knew all the lyrics. Even today I anticipate the loud "click-click" of the 8-Track player as it switches tracks. Of course that never happens because I listen to the compact disc now. Years back, I could never understand the nostalia that older people have for these silly little things. I know what it means now, as I miss the click dearly
I never had any idea what the song was truly about.
So after all these pages of talk (on and off discussion) did we ever come to a consensus on the deliberate act of making a puffer puff? How many people have done this before? I do have to admit that I have tried this before, but I was unsuccessful in the attempt.
P.S. [Flanders] Ralph, you can be on special teams.
[Ralph] Yeah! I'm special!
P.S. [Flanders] Ralph, you can be on special teams.
[Ralph] Yeah! I'm special!
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