How do you make a puffer fish puff?

[dizzy]

Actually I did try John's techique on the little dogface. It worked just like John said. But I got to say Brandon is way off with 10x. I agree with Steve that the danger to a puffer is in gulping air. I have accidentally allowed puffers to gulp air while trying to catch them (when selling them) and they can have a very difficult time expelling the air which can get trapped. I seem to recall losing an expensive Sapo puffer that had this happen once. Does anyone know how to get an air bubble dislodged if it becomes trapped in the puffer? It is for this reason I would not recommend people trying to get their puffers to inflate.

 

[Len]

nudge ..... still one page back :?

 

[saltyzoo]

Len,

Partially, I find it depressing and dissapointing because people I had respect for find it more important to argue unrelated issues (such as the hobby in general) rather than take a stand against doing the best you can to not stress the fish in our care. The other issues are important as well, but IMO this is a black and white situation. Don't do crap that might be harmful and serves no useful purpose other than getting some kicks.

But mostly I find it depressing and dissapointing because it has encouraged at least one person to physically handle a fish (which is stressful whether you choose to believe it or not) for no good reason whatsoever.

 

[Len]

Len,
Don't do crap that might be harmful and serves no useful purpose other than getting some kicks.

But this is ethically relevant to the entire concept of reefkeeping. It's a valid issue to discuss and I'm not sure why you're dismissing it as argumentative.

But mostly I find it depressing and dissapointing because it has encouraged at least one person to physically handle a fish (which is stressful whether you choose to believe it or not) for no good reason whatsoever.

Absoultely no offense intended, but John and Dizzy have both worked with more puffers then everyone else in this thread combined so I don't see what why I should accept your opinion over theirs. You claim to know absolute fact based on personal "feeling" without presenting any support (anecdotal or scientific). I don't think I'm unfair to question the validity of your statements.

 

[saltyzoo]

I'm very dissapointed that the notion that pysically handling a fish is considered non-stressful. Simply preposterous.

 

[Anonymous]

serves no useful purpose other than getting some kicks.

We actually crack open a 12 pack when the puffer in our tank puffs for no reason. We have a great night laughing it up at how silly that big ol' fish gets!

 

[Anonymous]

Partially, I find it depressing and dissapointing because people I had respect for find it more important to argue unrelated issues (such as the hobby in general) rather than take a stand against doing the best you can to not stress the fish in our care. The other issues are important as well, but IMO this is a black and white situation. Don't do crap that might be harmful and serves no useful purpose other than getting some kicks.

I simply disagree that the issues are unrelated. In fact, I find them strongly related, and am astounded at your insistance that they arent.

Having a reef tank in the home is harmful to the creatures, and serves no useful purpose other than getting some kicks. But that seems to be acceptable for reasons beyond me.

 

[Len]

I'm very dissapointed that the notion that pysically handling a fish is considered non-stressful. Simply preposterous.

How about my hogfish? It actually insists on being petted when my hand goes in the tank. It's never my intent, but if I don't pet it, the fish will purposely bump up against my hand and hover about me. Friendly fish for sure, and none worse for wear after human contact. It's not that I recommend touching fish (I recommend the exact opposite), but I can not agree that it's always stressful/undesirable. Calling our opinions preposterous is condescending, intentional or not.

BTW, fish don't feel like humans do. We would need to define stress (and refrain from condescension) to have a reasonable discussion about this topic.

 

[saltyzoo]

How about my hogfish? It actually insists on being petted when my hand goes in the tank. It's never my intent, but if I don't pet it, the fish will purposely bump up against my hand and hover about me.

This is anthropomorphism. Just because you think the fish likes it doesn't mean it's healthy for the fish.

If you find my words condescending, then so be it. The fact is I can't believe I'm reading that touching your fish is a good thing. Blows my mind.

I honestly have no desire to continue to attempt to educate you on why as all my attempts in the thread have been dismissed anyway. I'm obviously not as knowledgable as those that are handling their fish on a daily basis. Not that you have the slightest clue what my experience or knowledge base is. It doesn't matter what I say, several others will come on and say that since collecting fish, or driving SUV's, or making bombs is worse, then this doesn't matter. :roll:

 

[Anonymous]

Times Len said his fish "likes" it.....zero.
Times Len said it's "healthy" for his fish....zero.
...words in mouth, my friend.

 

[saltyzoo]

Since I'm so stupid, why don't you explain what the purpose of the statement was if not to imply those very things?

 

[saltyzoo]

On second thought. Forget it. I'm unsubscribing. There are much more productive ways for me to spend my time.

 

[brandon4291]

....well, the things look like an overstuffed corndog in the normal body style and when they puff they look like a volleyball, I figure ten was a good guess.

 

[Anonymous]

I honestly have no desire to continue to attempt to educate you on why as all my attempts in the thread have been dismissed anyway.

I don't believe they have dismissed. They have been questioned.

It doesn't matter what I say, several others will come on and say that since collecting fish, or driving SUV's, or making bombs is worse, then this doesn't matter. :roll:

I don't believe anyone has made any such argument, although it seems to be a common misconception of what has been said.

 

[Len]

I never said the fish liked it. It just does what it does and without any negative side effects contrary to your assertion that human contact with fish is always stressful/harmful.

I'm sorry we've reached this impasse. FWIW, we haven't dismissed your opinions any more then you've dismissed ours. I've personally tried to be respectful towards you. I would honestly like you to reconsider and put forth some data or anecdotal evidence supporting your stance. None have been provided thus far (IIRC .... this is a 12 page thread after all )

FWIW, I'd like to hear from others if I'm being unfair towards anyone in this thread. Feel free to email me as I'd hate to be unintentionally coming off as a "bad guy." I won't bite, pinky swear

 

[Anonymous]

Times I called you "stupid"....

 

[Anonymous]

On second thought. Forget it. I'm unsubscribing. There are much more productive ways for me to spend my time.

I always find it amazing when people with dug in opinions run when those opinions are questioned. I don't understand it, and I wish it wasn't the case. This hobby would be better if we all tried to understand each other.

 

[saltyzoo]

FWIW, I don't think anybodies being unfair. Close minded, argumentative, and in some cases completely wrong, yes, but not unfair.

Righty. I'm smart enough to know that some people are never going to change their minds. I've been presented the same (IMO) lame arguments over and over on this thread, and I've answered every one. Answering them yet again is not going to change anyones mind. It's not "running", it's spending my time wisely.

 

[Len]

Honestly, gregt, the same can be said about you. FWIW, I honestly think i'm open to new ideas, but you haven't backed yours up with any support. All you've done is call other opinions preposterous and rehash your stance (without support).

 

[Anonymous]

Righty. I'm smart enough to know that some people are never going to change their minds.

Besides being untrue, IMO/IME that is a cop out. You don't feel like dealing with people that disagree with you, so you convince yourself that nothing you say will make a difference, and you imply that we are closed minded.

From my standpoint, you simply have not put forth any convincing claims.

I've been presented the same (IMO) lame arguments over and over on this thread, and I've answered every one.

You have not answered the idea that 'if we shouldn't touch puffers just for kicks, why should we have a reef tankjust for kicks' - you seem to be ignoring it all together. I find the notion that the two are unrelated to be odd to say the least.
Your answers have mostly been 'thats a different subject', and 'but its wrong, anyone can see that' which are hardly answers. And, for the most part, by your responses, I am not convinced you are actually processing many of the points being made here. You seem to come to conclusions that are not there, and read into posts ideas that are not being expressed. I would love the oppurtunity to clear up these misconceptions, whomever is making them.

I say I disagree with you, but you still seem to think I am wrong, and you seem to think less of me because of it. I don't think any less of you for not thinking like I do because I think there is room for all kinds of opinions, and I wish you felt the same. I also find your parting pot shots and derogatory language to be beneath you, and I don't understand why you don't just agree to disagree and go on your way.

It's not "running", it's spending my time wisely.

When you make a big show of leaving - not just leaving but saying you are unsubscribing - as you did, it really looks like running.