turn-key aquariums and the new hobbyist

[CiXeL]

what id really like to see would be 60 gallon turn-key systems.

it'd get alot more people into the hobby with the right equipment and without bugging a whole ton of people trying to bum advice.

they should be able to buy an aquarium like people buy a computer. walk into a store, point at it and go, i want that one. this building it part by part thing is very amateur.

maybe if you've been doing reef tanks for awhile you'll want a custom system as do many computer users who have been using them for a long time and have alot of experience.

things like combination sump/uv sterilizer/protein skimmer all in one products would be great. what i would like to see is the cost come down on all the aquarium equipment. if patents are an issue, make it in china and bring it all in overseas. being in the computer industry and seeing the problems with patents i have very little respect for them.

if they focused on systems you could charge higher prices for custom work but also lower the cost of equipment and bring more people into the hobby.

 

[cdeakle]

hear hear!!

 

[CiXeL]

explain. this is food for thought.

 

[Melissa]

Amen to that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[CiXeL]

Maybe you can explain why you disagree with me.
Basically, I am not an elitist and I don't think anyone in the hobby should be up on a pedestle. If you are a snob you are my natural enemy.

 

[Anonymous]

I understand what you are saying, and I wish such a system exist.

But there is a big difference between a computer and an aquarium with live stock. If you want a 4 feet wide LCD monitor display with computer simulated fish and coral with human-machine interaction, then I can put a system together for you. However, when it come to an aquarium with live stock, the "user" plays a very important part in the system. For example, if a system say "just add water," then what type of water? Some people maybe able to do away with tap (some part of Pacific Northwest can), but some must use RO/DI because the water is very hard. How about temperature control? I have problem keeping my temperature stable at night because my living is very cold, but that is opposite during summer.

So will such "turn-key" system include RO/DI and a chiller for good measure? That would make it not economical, right?

Hardware problem, software incompatibility and user problem still are big issues with computer system. You will know this if you work for customer service for computer support.

 

[liquid]

While this would be great, I see some problems. It's not quite as cut and dry as this (altho it'd be great if it was!) A lot of the equipment depends on what you want to keep. FOWLR, nanos, softies, LPS, SPS, etc, take different pieces of equipment. Honestly there's so many varied opinions on what equipment is even necessary that it'd be a big challenge. Some people love sandbeds, some people hate them. Some people say you can keep SPS under PC's others say halides are the only way to go. Stuff like that makes it hard to create something like this.

FWIW, this is something we've thought about putting together in our library: some stock systems that people could put together if they wanted to keep certain things. What would be nice would be recommending various system components from our sponsors' websites and putting them together in a easy to reference page. It'd be a lot of work tho...

Shane

 

[CiXeL]

No, basically. Many many people in my area get 60 gallon tanks because they're very affordable. $30 for these glass tanks. I've used one for my reef 3 years and I never knew anyone who had a problem with the quality. This is why I used that as the standard. Basically I see a system where you could go down a list and assemble an aquarium like you assemble a Dell computer if you want custom OR you can pick from the 'special deals' of the month which would be pre-made systems. everything in an easy to read, easy to understand format. Heaters seem fairly inexpensive to add. Chillers you could throw a fan builtin to the sump for many people and make it optional to turn on. You could leave the option up to the buyer if they wanted to use RO/DI or get jugs of water from their local LFS.

What's wrong with this? The more people who have access to the hobby, the more people have the potential to come in and improve it for the better. There may be some 17 year old kid out there who will figure out how to keep feather stars and non-photosynthetic corals alive and thriving. That is one of the good aspects of this whole nemo thing. Maybe some parent buying a marine aquarium based on a pixar movie will get it up and running and the kid will learn with his dad and enter the hobby with a fresh mind and new set of ideas. Maybe the million clownfish who sacrifice their lives will be vindicated by new techniques which will allow the captive breeding of many other kinds of fish to decrease our dependance on pulling from the ocean.

 

[PeeJ]

its fun buying equipment. id no more by an already built tank system then i would go buy a computer. its a waste of money.

 

[CiXeL]

peej: Your average middle class person doesn't have the budget for fun purchases of equipment. Dell is ultra popular for a reason. They made it EASY.

 

[PeeJ]

well i put my 75 gallon tank together for pretty cheap. and its all good stuff too.

dell aint that great. it may be easy but when you get down to it, theres always something that is amiss. i.e. proprietary parts,

a dell system might look all great on the outside but what about the stuff that matters more....what if it has a 5400 rpm harddrive? or a crappy motherboard? or cheap Ram? that stuff makes a difference...a BIG difference.

lets say they do have a complete tank system to buy. then people that dont know anybetter will go out and set one up, and next thing you know,
you have a green moray in a 60 gallon tank. a complete system requires no thought or education. and thats a bad thing.

 

[PeeJ]

I'm a college student. After paying bills, I probably make about 120 dollars a week. I'd say thats much less than the average middle class person.
http://community.webshots.com/album/100313311ILfbWL
My tank is pretty decent. It's not T Gallos or anything, but I have good equipment too. And I barely have any money.

 

[CiXeL]

"a dell system might look all great on the outside but what about the stuff that matters more....what if it has a 5400 rpm harddrive? or a crappy motherboard? or cheap Ram? that stuff makes a difference...a BIG difference."

Exactly. but a) companies like to buy them because they dont want to think about them so they could pick one and add a maintenance contract. b) average parts will only increase the demand for higher quality parts and push more money towards people who want custom systems. Eventually you'd have many groups breaking off of the main hobby tract like the seahorse people did. This is the ocean we're talking about here. There is a huge area of research to cover.

"lets say they do have a complete tank system to buy. then people that dont know anybetter will go out and set one up, and next thing you know,
you have a green moray in a 60 gallon tank. a complete system requires no thought or education. and thats a bad thing."

The livestock issue is a matter of ethics I'm just discussing cheap equipment here. That is an entirely different conversation. I would imagine with your icon you would be right along with me about improving the status quo. Anything that exists can be mapped out and documented with a fair degree of accuracy. We could have coral and fish compatability databases online to tell them what can go with what given a popular model of aquarium turn-key system. Once you begin to eliminate the variables, the mortality rate of the livestock will go way down.

 

[PeeJ]

Naw man, my avatar has absolutely nothing to do with me...

you are keepin live animals here...so equipment is a big factor.

and yes livestock is a question of ethics. a GREAT example of this...remember that commercial for the little 5 gallon aquarium on TV? it was right after finding nemo...they had sea horses and a regal and a clown...


I just think its a good idea to make people research and ask and look and think. Not just go to wal mart and buy a "reef tank in an hour" package.

 

[reefworm]

CiXeL,
In an ideal world, a great idea. Had the same thoughts myself. But with a turn-key, there's no learning curve. Nothing like building the thing yourself after all the research to lock in the biology and the chemistry that allows the system to work. I also think that many instant gratification, no-hassle oriented American consumers would take the same attitude into a captive reef and give up after the meltdowns and dead animals from lack of experience and informed care. Not that that doesn't happen anyway, but we may be creating more such situations.

I think the turn-key setups that work are the ones in dentist offices,etc., where the customer not only buys the setup, but also the regular maintnenance. But that's out of the question for the average consumer you describe.

Just my $.02 :wink:

regards,
-rw

 

[Carpentersreef]

A lot of the "toys" that we use in our systems are just safety devices that allow us to make mistakes and move on. Skimmers, UV sterilizers and ozonizers allow us to overstock and overfeed our systems, but are not needed for an aquarist that understands what a proper bio-load is for their tank volume.
Depending what your knowledge and involvement level is for marine aquaria, you may need all or none of those items. In order to keep certain corals, you need certain lights or certain water movement or food.
AND
Once you have your system set up as you like it, you will probably change your mind and want something different!

Aquariums are not something that can be bought like a computer and then possibly forgotten about, only to gather dust. These are living, breathing animals that require a commitment from the aquarist to properly look after them!
Educate yourself before buying any animal, decide whether you want to make the commitment or not THEN purchase the equipment required to properly look after it.

DON'T buy an aquarium because it comes in a neat, easy to set up package and will make a pretty piece of furniture.

Mitch

 

[CiXeL]

"Depending what your knowledge and involvement level is for marine aquaria, you may need all or none of those items. In order to keep certain corals, you need certain lights or certain water movement or food. "

Exactly. Unnecessary. So make them cheap enough where theyre a disposable commodity and it wouldnt hurt in the slightest to have them included as a tank standard. I'm more interested in the prices of this stuff.

People shouldn't be able to charge the ridiculous amounts of money they're charging for this stuff.

Sumps are essentially plastic boxes. Sterilite could pump them out a dime a dozen. It should be MORE EXPENSIVE to DIY than purchase.

Why is it that lighting systems cost so much more from aquarium shops than from hydroponics shops? Its the markup.

Standards raise the status quo. You should be able to get everything you need to raise softies for under $400 if the economics weren't so screwed up. Thats why I like China. It is definately changing the landscape by dropping the prices and allowing people with less money to afford tanks. Sure alot of people will claim its crap and they may very well have a good argument but so was japanese manufacturing when it started and then they kicked our a$$es.

remember it shouldnt cost as much as it does, our hobby is essentially underwater gardening.

 

[PeeJ]

well for one hydroponics do not use bulbs of the same spectrum. HPS lights arent going to look as good. and with some of the differnt MH lights, the cheaper balasts wont work.

if thats how you feel man, get out of the hobby...move to china. if your mad cause it costs too much, then stop doing it. its a hobby, not a requisite. im mad that dodge vipers cost 80,000, but hey..oh well guess i wont buy one.

you said DIY was cheaper than buying the product...so why don't you start doin it.

 

[CiXeL]

but dodge vipers cost 80,000 because they're luxury items. i think aquariums shouldnt be one.

"you said DIY was cheaper than buying the product...so why don't you start doin it."

yes. but im also scoping out ideas on ways to make money in this hobby. i'm much more than talk.

 

[Anonymous]

>... but dodge vipers cost 80,000 because they're luxury items. i think aquariums shouldnt be one.

Sorry, but any hobby is a luxury, including reef keeping.