Not liking 10,000K MH bulbs

[mark78]

As the thread dies down...

I just read something about 10000K bulbs becoming 6700K once the water filters out the blue. I think it would likley take 36"+ of water to notice this effect in an aquarium so I disagree with that, but...

I thought about it, and why is water blue? Because it reflects back the blue light from the sun. So wouldn't that make you think they use more of the other colors and not blue. No?

 

[Unarce]

It's the other way around. The kelvin rating increases as you go deeper. The blue, violent, and ultraviolet wavelengths are the last to be absorbed. :wink:

 

[mark78]

hmm I thought preceived colors we see were from reflected light meaning the colors we dont see aren't reflected and thusly penetrate deeper...anyways not important how it works

Thought you might enjoy this, just happened to run across it. Just more to show theres no serious proof for either camp

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-11/eb/index.htm - Eric Borneman

"Myth 5: The "K" rating of aquarium lamps plays an important role in the coloration of corals.
Myth 6: Corals are colorful because of their symbiotic zooxanthellae.

Zooxanthellae are golden brown to deep brown in color, depending on their pigment content and the light/temperature environment in which they are found. The bright colors in corals arise from either animal-based or skeleton-based pigments. Many gorgonians, soft corals, and a few stony corals incorporate pigments into skeletal elements. Others have animal based pigments that are either biosynthesized or acquired through diet. Many zooxanthellate corals have their bright colors because of a family of multi-hued fluorescing proteins. These pigments seem to be produced in response to a given light environment. The primary control on their production appears to be total irradiance level, and little evidence exists to suggest that the "k" rating of bulbs will influence their production. There is also a strong genetic component, although the specific aspects of fluorescing proteins and their respective genes have not yet been worked out. The color temperature of light bulbs most likely influences the perceived color of corals in a tank, with ultraviolet components enhancing highly fluorescent pigments. Certain bulb temperatures may have enough of their spectrum skewed in relative distribution that total irradiance with a given wattage may be affected, and thus total irradiance influencing the relative production of fluorescing proteins.

It is notable that some pigments appear to be formed as a result of low light, while others appear to be formed in environments with high irradiance levels. For more information, see the article and references located here.

Potential: varied. If a brightly colored coral is producing fluorescing proteins in response to low light, placement in high light environments may result in bleaching. Other aspects of fluorescing protein production may be related to bleaching resistance in high light environments. Otherwise, coloration is largely aesthetic for reef aquariums.
Distribution: widespread. It is becoming more widely recognized in aquarium circles that coral coloration does not arise from the colors of zooxanthellae. However, many articles in the lay press still wrongfully propose this notion. The belief that the k-rating of bulbs is important to coral coloration is widespread among the hobby populace, and appears to be a common misconception in all countries."

 

[Anonymous]

hmm I thought preceived colors we see were from reflected light meaning the colors we dont see aren't reflected and thusly penetrate deeper...anyways not important how it works

When you look at a green leaf, you see the color green. This means the leaf is absorbing mostly red, blue and purple light, and reflecting back green and yellow. An oversimplification, I know.

Now, go underwater, or look at a picture underwater. The water isn't blue in one area, it's blue in all directions. Even if you go under and stare straight up at the sun, it looks blue. This means the only colors getting through the water are in the blue/purple end of the spectrum.

A similar but wholly different effect happens at sunset. The air in our atmosphere has the property of filtering out blue, and letting red pass through a little better. Thus, at sunset, when the light of the sun has a lot more atmosphere to pass through, only the red/yellow end of the spectrum gets through to our eyes. Everything appears redder, but it's not because more red light is reflected, it's because more red light is available compared to blue/purple light.

Now, flip the words 'red/yellow' and 'blue/purple' in that last sentence, and you have the situation underwater.

 

[getsteppin]

Yo dkedrowitsch...... Are you planning on loading this tank in the near future? That 1 rock sure looks lonesome...lol

Iam sure the 2 fish are bored to death!! ROFLMAO!!

You definantly have the right "live sand" level...I assume its live sand.
Do you have a wet/dry filter, too. I noticed a hanger type filter (?) Or is it a Berlin Prizim??
Take some advice. The most MAJOR peice of equipment is GREAT protein skimmer....you can forget the wet/dry filter IF you have 1-2 lbs of LR per tank/gallon AND include a GREAT protein skimmer. By all means, and you can take it or just consider this...Get a GREAT protein skimmer BEFORE loading the tank.
Oh yah, be very sure of the amount of water movement if you are adding more rock. The greater the water movement, the less particulate accumulation within the rocks...and too, it helps the pre-filter with more water movement.

All the above I learned the hard way. With all the info. available on the net, it gets confusing.
We had a pretty good load of animals within the first 3 monthes...all were doing just fine. We got real cocky and got the same amount of animals and added them to the tank...all were tank raised. Within 1 week, ALL the new inhabitants DIED...everyone of them. But, the original inhabitants are thriving to this day.
The reason they died was>> we had equipment for our 30 gallon and USED it on our 55 gallon..i.e..water jets, protein skimmer, single bulb 175 W 13Kk MH (of which I cannot find anymore in the 13Kk range) and the useless wet/dry filter from Aqua Clear which came with a built in protein skimmer...VERY dumb idea.
So, the 55 gallon is holding its own and has long since stabilized with the limited resources for life support its still running on. Funding has been short but here soon, after much research into what we did WRONG, we now know what to do to make it right.
The moral to this story is this...1.) SPEND the bucks NOW to do the animals in your tank RIGHT. if you are only planning on FO tank, equip it anyway to house and maintain a more bio-diverse system.

Just had to tell ya

getsteppin

 

[mark78]

When you look at a green leaf, you see the color green. This means the leaf is absorbing mostly red, blue and purple light, and reflecting back green and yellow. An oversimplification, I know.

Now, go underwater, or look at a picture underwater. The water isn't blue in one area, it's blue in all directions. Even if you go under and stare straight up at the sun, it looks blue. This means the only colors getting through the water are in the blue/purple end of the spectrum.

Thanks you couldn't of explained it any better.

 

[dkedrowitsch]

Actually just this weekend I plunked down $200 for about 40lbs of live rock. Beutiful looking rock, lots of coraline algae, fully cured under plenty of MH light. Got it from Todd at Something Fishy, about 40 minutes from me. He sells livestock and rock to Champion Lighting and some other big places so I figured I'd give him a try. So, my tank is by far not full of rock yet, but it looks better then that single piece I had in there. The baby clowns love it! I'll add more rock in a few weeks...I don't want to dump it in all at once, even though it has been fully cured.

My sump is not a wet dry. Simply a place to hold the skimmer, 10gal 'fuge. Search the forum for the thread "Pics of my home made sump" for details. Attached is a picture. The two hoses coming in from the left are for a canister packed with floss I had hooked up to help clear a sand storm from a power head that fell onto the substrate. The skimmer is a RedSea Berlin Triple Pass "turbo" skimmer. Certainly better then some crappy skimmers, but not the best by far. For me it works very well. Skims black MUD and hardly needs adjustment. I just tore it apart and cleaned it for the first time so it needs to break in again however it skimmed a pretty good amount of crud last night.

The thing you see hanging on the back is my CPR overflow. That takes the water down to the sump. A mag 950 circulates the tank through the sump, and with 3 power heads I have about 1500 gph net tank circulation, so I plenty of turbulance (nothing settles on the sand, blows around till it's sucked down the overflow).

 

[liquid]

And now for your reading enjoyment:

PAM Fluorometer Experiments
Part I: Effects of Metal Halide Lamp Spectral Qualities on Zooxanthellae Photosynthesis in Photoacclimated Fungia Corals: The Red Light Theory
Part II: Effects of Water Motion on Zooxanthellae Photosynthesis
By Dana Riddle

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/ ... eature.htm

Shane

 

[DaisyPolyp]

Wow, It's almost as if you guys predicted this thread!

Very interesting with the red spectrum... something that I have not heard much about.

Also, the elusive saturation point measured in mols, Dana alludes that it is less than 800umol/m2/s2

The water movement section... methinks that the carbon dioxide need for PS2 is the factor that produces these results. An important consideration that we should increase water movement with light intensity (some of you dual-400 watters out there take note).

Definately an A+ article... good job AAOL!

 

[Anonymous]

I'm changing my bulbs in Oct. I was gonna go 10K from my 55Ks only because I have a clam that is low in the tank. The tank is a 125(6ft long) with 3 175w MH and 2 40w actinics. Now I do like the blue color and I was an advocate on this site in the past for more natural blue lighting. However, will a Maxima clam, that cannot be moved, be okay under 3 175 xm 20Ks or would I be better with a 10K or a 14K?

My only concern is that the clam will suffer w/o the intense shallow water lighting they like.

 

[DaisyPolyp]

hmmm, on a 125G 3X175 is on the low end of your lighting requirements. being 175watt i'm assuming they are single ended bulbs, and those will have a lower total light output than double ended. I would try and keep the clam as shallow as possible, if that cannot be accomidated, then you should find the best mix of spectrum and intensity to maximize your lighting. I wouldn't go an lower than 10K because the redder light will attenuate faster, and I would stay away from Radium bulbs which have a lower total light output. anything else in the 10K-20K range should be okay.

 

[Anonymous]

I agree I do not want anything lower than 10K. But would 20K 175 Watt SE bulbs be enough for a blue maxima? It is currently growing great uner the 55Ks.

 

[Anonymous]

bump

 

[Unarce]

Here's a thread of my Crocea Clam story:

http://reefs.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t ... lam+rescue

He was close to death under 55K's at the LFS (I'm sure other factors were involved). I had it under 10K's for a few weeks, but it fully recovered after installing 20K. No gap in the inhalant siphon at all.

Because of depth and the bulbs being 175W, I would go with 14K all around. Maybe a 10K in the middle and 2 20K's on each side.

 

[Unarce]

I think your clam would be fine in either scenario. :wink:

 

[Anonymous]

I like the idea of the 10K in the center and the 20Ks on the out sides esp cause the clam is in the middle. But will the lighting look funny or should they meld together well? You know....too white in the middle and blue on the outskirts.

 

[Anonymous]

PFO makes a 13K bulb what about that instead?

 

[Anonymous]

BUMPOLA!

 

[DaisyPolyp]

less important is the spectrum or kelvin temp, more importand is total light output. go with a well known, good quality lamp that has been show to have high output (XM20k's, Iwasaki10K's, etc.)

 

[Unarce]

good quality lamp that has been shown to have high output (XM20k's, Iwasaki10K's, etc.)

Good point. Check out the testimonials for XM Lighting:

http://www.xmlighting.com/testimonials.html

Perhaps an XM 10K in the middle will blend in nicely with 2 XM 20K's on each side.