Atlantic Staghorn and Elkhorn...

[John_Brandt]

I will have to take a dip this weekend and see if i can find them. I have a pretty good ideal where they are at.

... as Chris showed... they are close to the shore and dense.

Keep your eyes out for Emperor & Koran angels - purple, sailfin & yellow tangs - and of course the Volitan lionfish. There are at least 15 species of Indo-Pacific 'illegal alien' ornamental reef species that are thriving in this area.

 

[WRASSER]

They thrive in Ft.Lauderdale, Florida :?:

 

[John_Brandt]

They thrive in Ft.Lauderdale, Florida :?:

Yep. Here's what species you got (at a minimum) thriving from Biscayne to Delray...

Angelfishes: Emperor, Koran, Six-bar, Blue-ring, Asfur, Maculosis.
Surgeonfishes: Yellow, Purple, Sailfin, Indian Ocean Sailfin, Naso elegans (IO Naso).
Volitan lionfish.
Moorish Idol.
Orbicularis batfish.
Raccoon butterflyfish.


Now you go find the next weirdo swimming off the steamy concrete jungle.

 

[Anonymous]

I reread that article and caught a part I missed.

Elkhorn in the Flower Gardens??? Now THAT is exciting.

Yeah. Borneman (among others) has photos of these. FG is a silly little seamount out in the middle of 'reef nowheres' near Texas. But there is a current that flows from Cuba/Cayman directly to it (I think).

Yes. The Caribbean current system splits as it enters the Gulf of Mexico. The Eastern fork forms the Westerm leg of the loop current, and the Western fork forms the Mexican system, the edge of which runs roughly where the FGB are located. Also, the seamounts of the FGB are two giant salt diapirs (domes) formed by compression of old evaporites under layers of clastic sediment. The compression from the terrigenous material liquifies the salt and it flows towards the surface, displacing the seafloor upwards, and often carrying oil with it (hence all the oil drilling in the Gulf). One of the FGB (East or West) actually has an active salt flow from the dome.

 

[Anonymous]

Hi Chris. I'm pretty good. How are you?

Massive Montastraea are certainly large and long-lived. But the historical rate of carbonate secretion by them compared to Acroprorids (or even Halimeda or foraminiferans) must be lesser.

Since I don't know what Dr. Reef means by 'workable', I don't know how to really argue against it. If he means that massive hermatypics are generally associated with great reef biodiversity when they exist without branching corals... then I am skeptical.

BTW Chris, it would probably be easy to figure out exactly where those Florida staghorn colonies are, if you snoop around the few grassroots NGOs that are loudly opposing the beach restoration/dredgings that are planned in Ft. Lauderdale by the local government.

Google works wonders, too

 

[WRASSER]

Sweet, i will definetly bring my nets

 

[Anonymous]

Geese, why does it fall to me to provide the stupid hijack?

Ok, here goes...

 

[Anonymous]

Damn. Can't think of anything. Mind you, just by showing up and babbling in an incoherent way, I think I'm doing my Sump duty.

 

[Anonymous]

Got this today on Coral-List. I'm sure you saw it, too, John.

The /Acropora palmata/ in the upper Florida Keys has been losing tissue rapidly since early July when Hurricane Dennis passed to our west (July 9). Surveys of our study sites (n=15) on the 13th and 14th showed substantial tissue loss along with fragmentation at all sites. We have not observed any other species in the vicinity to be similarly affected. Observations by others from Biscayne National Park (to our North) and the lower Florida Keys indicate that Acropora throughout the Keys are affected. Based on the lack of algal colonization of the exposed skeleton it is clear that most of this tissue mortality occured around the time of the storm or just after. Also, tissue mortality was commonly observed in an unusual pattern suggestive of water motion or sandblasting though the skeleton was not abraded...

I know where this is leading to...

 

[John_Brandt]

I read Coral-List about once a week, not daily.

So the recent big hurricane shaved tissue off of the Florida palmatas and left the bare skeletons.

"I know where this is leading to..."

Where? I would guess that it is leading to a small gift shop that is 3.71 miles northwest of Hackettstown, New Jersey. But that is probably wrong. They specialize in embroidered wall art. But again, I think that that isn't relative and I am wrong about "where this is leading to".

Whassup bro?

 

[Anonymous]

Apologies for my earlier crass attempt at a hijack.

Could I ask a serious, albeit stupid, layman's question?

As the seas warm up, would there be any point in trying to establish coral reefs in seas that wouldn't have previously been warm enough? I'm rather worried by talk I've seen recently about how the coral reefs are on their way to extinction, even without our help...

 

[John_Brandt]

As the seas warm up, would there be any point in trying to establish coral reefs in seas that wouldn't have previously been warm enough? I'm rather worried by talk I've seen recently about how the coral reefs are on their way to extinction, even without our help...

Do you want to move all the corals from the hot water to the cold water?

 

[Anonymous]

Well, hot to warm was the thinking.

Would it be possible to establish new coral reefs? Of course, they'd take many years to get big, but could you give nature a helping hand?

 

[Anonymous]

Apologies for my earlier crass attempt at a hijack.

They deserve what they get for posting in the sump, quit apologizing you limey bastard :twisted:
_________________
Law Discussion

 

[Anonymous]

Well, that's what I was thinking, but their actual strange knowledge of facts and theories kind of intimidated me.

You loud mouthed Yank.

 

[Anonymous]

I read Coral-List about once a week, not daily.

So the recent big hurricane shaved tissue off of the Florida palmatas and left the bare skeletons.

"I know where this is leading to..."

Where? I would guess that it is leading to a small gift shop that is 3.71 miles northwest of Hackettstown, New Jersey. But that is probably wrong. They specialize in embroidered wall art. But again, I think that that isn't relative and I am wrong about "where this is leading to".

Whassup bro?

Certain people are fighting tooth and claw to get all Caribbean Acroporids on the ESA... Much of the credible reef science community is opposed to it. Observations like these are being made by people scouring for every shred of rationalization they can muster to list these coral species.

 

[John_Brandt]

... quit apologizing you limey bastard :twisted:

Limey? The dude is posting from Japan. He's a Jap not a Limey, yes?

But let's put that stuff aside and focus on those corals. Burntom, you redifined your grand idea. So, you want to move the corals from hot to warm water rather from hot to cold water? If the warm water then becomes hot water (global warming warming), you will have to get them into cooler water eventually, right?

Why not put the "pretty colorful flower animals" right straight into the cold stuff now? I can't speak for corals, but I'm curious if you are game to put them through the hurdles, rather than immediately relocate them all to the Antarctic shelf regions.

 

[Anonymous]

:lol:

Ok, I'm a layman, bear with me. Maybe I'm not expressing myself clearly.

I'm simply talking about mariculturing some corals (not moving them all - just frags) in the areas adjacent to the coral seas. If the waters the corals are in now get too hot for them and lead to El Nino style mass bleaching, then surely the adjoining waters are also warming up? If so, might they then become suitable for coral growth?

I guess my question is partly based on two others.

One: will coral adapt to global warming induced warmer water?

Two: if not, will they spread to cooler water (i.e. the water that up until now has been too cool, but thanks to global warming is now warm enough) naturally? If not, would human attempts to mariculture them on new sites help this spread and maybe preserve some coral diversity for the future.

Seems sensible to a layman. Maybe not to someone with an informed idea of how this would actually work. :?

PS: I guess my question also has a implied focus on reef building coral.

 

[John_Brandt]

Certain people are fighting tooth and claw to get all Caribbean Acroporids on the ESA.

You are talking about the fine young attorney from San Francisco.

Much of the credible reef science community is opposed to it. Observations like these are being made by people scouring for every shred of rationalization they can muster to list these coral species.

I have no stake or firm opinion on this issue. Do you feel that the Endangered Species Act (ESA) is problematic as is, or that American Acropora doesn't fit into the given definition put forth by the ESA, or what?

I'm all ears.

 

[John_Brandt]

:lol:

Ok, I'm a layman, bear with me. Maybe I'm not expressing myself clearly.

I'm simply talking about mariculturing some corals (not moving them all - just frags) in the areas adjacent to the coral seas. If the waters the corals are in now get too hot for them and lead to El Nino style mass bleaching, then surely the adjoining waters are also warming up? If so, might they then become suitable for coral growth?

I guess my question is partly based on two others.

One: will coral adapt to global warming induced warmer water?

Two: if not, will they spread to cooler water (i.e. the water that up until now has been too cool, but thanks to global warming is now warm enough) naturally? If not, would human attempts to mariculture them on new sites help this spread and maybe preserve some coral diversity for the future.

Seems sensible to a layman. Maybe not to someone with an informed idea of how this would actually work. :?

PS: I guess my question also has a implied focus on reef building coral.

Galleon has based his entire career on your concerns and questions. He will give you answers shortly.