• Why not take a moment to introduce yourself to our members?

A

Anonymous

Guest
or, "Ermm, hmm, uh, yeah, we knew this would happen. Again."

http://faculty.disl.org/Publications/Pr ... 202004.pdf

Read this article. Now think about all the staghorn/elkorn endangered species/extinction propaganda you've recently read or seen on these boards and elsewhere.

As most of you know, my work is primarily in climate history and paleoceanography (specifically Atlantic/Caribbean Basin reefs) through coral proxies, and my focus is on Caribbean acroporids.

I've seen the Broward County staghorn fields (yes, fields of it) with my own eyes, and it's hard to believe (but likely) that it has grown since the 70's. Any of you familiar with the 60's and 70's on the Northern Keys reefs tract will know that it was a huge boom period for staghorn especially, beginning primarily after the enormous distribution of fragments starting with Hurricane Donna. Any of you familiar with them recently, you know that it's anything but boom, especially for the lower regions of the Keys tract. It's also hard to believe that these corals, so sensitive we are led to believe, are growing snorkeling distance away from one of the most populated and industrialized beaches on the East Coast. Hmmm. I also have firsthand knowledge of several northern newly (within the past 3 years) recruited populations of staghorn.

Absences in staghorn populations in the Keys are not unprecedented. There is a very nice neat record of storm deposits of staghorn in the Keys that date from the mid/early Holocene to present (except for a 500 year gap). They are absent from the Early Holocene, which was warmer than now. While this is not direct evidence of a similar acroporid annihilation from what we know as the present Keys reef tract, it does suggest that increased investigation may show a precedent in the simultaneous reduction of keys populations and a northern shift in population of acroporids (we already know that populations did expand further north during the early Holocene warm period), which are essentially boom/bust weeds.

Even bigger news than staghorn expansion, is elkhorn expansion. Perfect, healthy colonies are showing up, again, in northern waters, off beaches you would never expect given the conditions it flourished under in the last 50 years throughout the Caribbean: shallow (< 5m), crystal clear waters with minimal sedimentation and vigorous wave action and tidal flows.

Given the presence of ice rafting events (Heinrich Events) and Dansgaard-Oeschger cycles, which are very rapid sea surface temperature warming, likely caused by re-ignition of heat transport by North Atlantic Deepwater formation after the warming of the equatorial ocean during periods of little deep water formation (deep water formation drives ocean-based poleward heat transport), through the last 80,000 years (prior to this interglacial and after the last interglacial), I think we should have expected baseline shifts like this. I imagine these corals may be capable of responding much faster given a stronger forcing from more rapid SST changes.

Anyway, those are my random thoughts for the evening.
 

Sugar Magnolia

Advanced Reefer
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
This really doesn't surprise me. The environmental shifts in the ocean take a heck of a lot longer than fluctuations that occur in our boxes of rocks. Swings like you describe allows the staghorns and elkhorns to adapt to the environment and change their behavior accordingly.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
More...

The article questions whether the Ft. Lauderdale staghorn will survive the next hurricane impact. Well, they did (Hurricane Frances), perhaps as this very article was in review/press. I doubt they will fair as well if an extreme cold air outbreak impacted the area.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
And I do mean fields. Staghorn thicket, Ft. Lauderdale. Unless you know what street to get in off of, good luck finding it...

staghorn4b.jpg
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Something that has not been very well resolved in this field is where this plasticity comes from. Is the environment acting on variability in the host animal, or does variability in the zooxanthellae facilliate this plasticity?

Acroporids exhibit the most clade-specific host-symbiont relationship of all corals. And, there is no evidence of clade switching by the host, even following bleaching events. Yet, although zooxanthellae are clonal organisms, the diversity and relative phyologeny of them suggests that they have at one time, or may still today reproduce sexually. Thus, there may be variability within the zoox clade that these hosts prefer that may enable them to better respond to shifting environments.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
The plight of acroporids in FL is also sort of a "so-what" topic. With the exception of very healthy elkhorn stands, they really don't do any reef building per se.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Dr. Reef":d5avvt79 said:
The plight of acroporids in FL is also sort of a "so-what" topic.

It's a pretty big deal to a lot of people at the moment.

With the exception of very healthy elkhorn stands, they really don't do any reef building per se.

Most people don't know that.

But here's a good example of them not building reef:

1971, after the recent dry rocks Acroporid explosion courtesy of two major hurricanes

DryRocks.1971.jpg


2001

grecianrocks4-2001.jpg
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Exactly my point. The only thing left is from where the montastrea were. cervicornis thickets disappear pretty damn quick when they die. Elkhorn last a little longer, but it depends on the wave action.

The big ass montastreas last.

bottom line is all the big hermatypic corals need to be alive to really make a workable reef.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Dr. Reef":2ylz2n60 said:
Exactly my point. The only thing left is from where the montastrea were. cervicornis thickets disappear pretty damn quick when they die. Elkhorn last a little longer, but it depends on the wave action.

The big ass montastreas last.

bottom line is all the big hermatypic corals need to be alive to really make a workable reef.

Depends on your definition of a workable reef.

This should be moved to the GRD probably.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Good point. I took workable to mean productive, but we see a lot of artificial reefs producing good fish populations.
 

John_Brandt

Experienced Reefer
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Dr. Reef":2hmsryhy said:
Exactly my point. The only thing left is from where the montastrea were. cervicornis thickets disappear pretty damn quick when they die. Elkhorn last a little longer, but it depends on the wave action.

The big ass montastreas last.

bottom line is all the big hermatypic corals need to be alive to really make a workable reef.

I don't entirely understand what you are arguing for. Are you saying that massive hermatypic corals define 'workable' reefs even in the prolonged absence of branching hermatypics?

What do you mean by 'workable'?
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
John_Brandt":289o4s84 said:
Dr. Reef":289o4s84 said:
Exactly my point. The only thing left is from where the montastrea were. cervicornis thickets disappear pretty damn quick when they die. Elkhorn last a little longer, but it depends on the wave action.

The big ass montastreas last.

bottom line is all the big hermatypic corals need to be alive to really make a workable reef.

I don't entirely understand what you are arguing for. Are you saying that massive hermatypic corals define 'workable' reefs even in the prolonged absence of branching hermatypics?

Well, they certainly can.

Again depending on your definition of workable.

Heheh.

Long time no see John, how are ya?
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I reread that article and caught a part I missed.

Elkhorn in the Flower Gardens??? Now THAT is exciting.
 

John_Brandt

Experienced Reefer
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Hi Chris. I'm pretty good. How are you?

Massive Montastraea are certainly large and long-lived. But the historical rate of carbonate secretion by them compared to Acroprorids (or even Halimeda or foraminiferans) must be lesser.

Since I don't know what Dr. Reef means by 'workable', I don't know how to really argue against it. If he means that massive hermatypics are generally associated with great reef biodiversity when they exist without branching corals... then I am skeptical.

BTW Chris, it would probably be easy to figure out exactly where those Florida staghorn colonies are, if you snoop around the few grassroots NGOs that are loudly opposing the beach restoration/dredgings that are planned in Ft. Lauderdale by the local government.
 

WRASSER

Advanced Reefer
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I will have to take a dip this weekend and see if i can find them. I have a pretty good ideal where they are at.
 

John_Brandt

Experienced Reefer
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
galleon":3msfz9o4 said:
I reread that article and caught a part I missed.

Elkhorn in the Flower Gardens??? Now THAT is exciting.

Yeah. Borneman (among others) has photos of these. FG is a silly little seamount out in the middle of 'reef nowheres' near Texas. But there is a current that flows from Cuba/Cayman directly to it (I think).
 

Sponsor Reefs

We're a FREE website, and we exist because of hobbyists like YOU who help us run this community.

Click here to sponsor $10:


Top