Nitrates are permanent?

[postie]

I've done everything I know to do on a little 20-gallon tank to get rid of nitrates. I've been working on it for a month (tank has been set up about 5 years, but gone downhill due to a lengthy illness I had). In that time (this past month), I've done in the neighborhood of 12-14 water changes (3 gallons at a time). I've changed the filter media in the bio-wheel filter (Lord only knows what kind it is) and I've added 10 lbs. of live rock (already had about 10 lbs. in there)....well quarantined and cured and added slowly. Water quality is excellent except for nitrates which stay so far off the chart they must be in the thousands. The tank is spotlesss thanks to some very forgiving snails, hermits can't make it in those nitrates, already lost about 30 hermits. Ruby crab is scratching her head but doing fine. Sally Lightfoot, dead. Emerald, dead. I'm getting ready to put 130 watts of power compact lighting to have a full reef, although it actually will be a coral starter tank (corals to be moved to larger tank when appropriate). So.........how can I dig these nitrates out of this water. I use distilled, treat it with buffer for alkalinity and also calcium. Few drops of iodine on Mondays. I'm headed out to get cleaner shrimp and a starter coral, but not until these nitrates are gone. Everybody help!!!! Oh, tank also has one yellow-tailed damsel (6 year old original...lol)

 

[Anonymous]

the key is to get plant life thriving. Once that is done then the system will take care of itself.

 

[Anonymous]

I would stop adding the drops of Iodine, especially since you have been doing lots of water changes. Inverts need iodine, but excess can kill them and a water change here and there will give them plenty. I almost wonder if that is what is doing in the hermits.

Are you sure you have a good working test kit? I am shocked that nitrates are off the chart with all the work you are doing. Perhaps you could pick up a new one of a different brand, or take some water to the LFS? Test kits can and do go bad.

Do you possibly have a sandbed that maybe something crawled down into and died?

Also, test your new water that you use for water changes for nitrates, on rare occasions we hear about someone getting a bad batch of salt.

Good luck.

 

[Anonymous]

Take some water and get it tested at the LFS...with that many water changes, your nitrates shouldn't continue to be off the charts. Also as Miss Laura said, discontinue the iodine supplementation.

Good luck, and keep us posted!

 

[Anonymous]

at this point if hermits won't even live in it for sake of sky high nitrate, i would break it down.
then i would rinse the rock with powerhead and tube and put it in newly mixed saltwater...100%.

if you have a fish living in there and the tank is clean... with snails or not, i would doubt the test kit too. killer nitrate levels would make a mess.

definately stop the iodine dosing

 

[postie]

There was a small pink tipped anemone that evidently died somewhere. I have searched for days for the thing, moved rocks, etc...it is nowhere to be found. I'm praying that the 3 or 4 huge red-legged hermits I have left made a meal of it. But it is sure nowhere to be found and I'm aware of what anemones leave behind as a reminder of their one-time existence...lol. But, the nitrate problem has been persistent. Way before the anemone and now after. There hasn't seemed to be a difference. I am buying new salt today, stopping the iodine, will do a couple more large water changes and see what happens. I will then add more hermits and see if they survive.

Thanks for the responses...I will keep working and you guys keep thinking

 

[Sugar Magnolia]

You said you changed the media in your biowheel filter - are you running the biowheel in it? Those things tend to trap nitrates.

 

[Anonymous]

Sugar I was thinking the same thing. In my case, snails are always the first thing to go when the tank is out of whack. I don't think I'd add anything until you get it straightened out.

I think, I'd just start over like Podman suggested.

 

[ChrisRD]

What kind of substrate is in the tank?

 

[dot]

I wouldn't add the lighting just yet either. If you have a nutrient rich system the last thing you want to do is give it good lighting! 8O You'll have more algae than you'll know what to do with.

dot

 

[postie]

I'm thinking of adding red grape calerpa first. Found a good buy. Is this calerpa going to do funky things and cloud the tank trying to reproduce like the green calerpa does??? Yes, there is a biowheel fixture on the tank. It's a 20-gallon tank with filter rated for 60 gallons. Anyone know about the red grape calerpa and it's behavior?

While the tank may be nutrient rich, there is no excess algae. Tank and rock are clear as a bell and clean. I have a tiny patch of macroalgae, grasslike, but it is very small. I expect an algae bloom with extra lighting, but it's power compacts, not halide and I think I can solve any issues with light induced algae....it's just those darn nitrates!

And those snails...they must be mutants...they are doing fine...and I have either two or three huge red-legged hermits.....all the other (several) hermits dead as a doornail. Weird...I thought the snails would be the first to go to. I wasn't even sure you could kill a hermit...lol

 

[Anonymous]

Your crabs may eat the red grape. My first effort at in tank macros resulted in the macros slowly disappearing over a 3 week period. And an anemone crab was always munching on them.

IMO the red grape looks awesome if you can get it thriving. You may want to try culturing half of it in another container just to make sure you have some. And if it does not take off in the display then try some simple in tank refug to protect it. Meanwhile you will always have some cultured to try to keep up.

If you really have nitrates off the scale and very little to no algae then I highly suspect your livestock is eating the plant life very quickly.

 

[postie]

Oh, ChrisRD asked about the substrate. I have about 1 1/2 - 2 inches of sand, and I'm now adding, very slowly, more sand in order to end up with about 3 or 3 1/2 inches or so LSB. I've noticed plenty of bristle worms, small, in the rock and sand, and coralline is starting back on the rock but not the glass or fixtures...One old rock is getting a very nice purple look. But there really is no algae or plant life (visible) other than the little patch of grass which no one seems to like. I may try the grape calerpa...what are the bad things that could happen if I put it in there? Other than it disappearing?

 

[Anonymous]

Oh, ChrisRD asked about the substrate. I have about 1 1/2 - 2 inches of sand, and I'm now adding, very slowly, more sand in order to end up with about 3 or 3 1/2 inches or so LSB. I've noticed plenty of bristle worms, small, in the rock and sand, and coralline is starting back on the rock but not the glass or fixtures...One old rock is getting a very nice purple look. But there really is no algae or plant life (visible) other than the little patch of grass which no one seems to like. I may try the grape calerpa...what are the bad things that could happen if I put it in there? Other than it disappearing?

Yes it could go sexual but that is highly unlikely with high nutirents, carbon dioxide, and light.

The only thing remotely resembling a sexual event I have had in two years was with a green feather that had been in shipping for three days, with outside temperatures at 95 degrees or higher, and introduced to a tank that had unmeasureable nitrates.

As I said if you want to make sure just try it in another container, with your water change water, some circulation, and lotsa light. If it takes off there then there will be no problem with it going sexual in your display.

FWIW sexual events are extremely rare in our tanks. According to people in florida who farm various caulpera in outside tanks/ponds/greenhouses etc. it seems to be seasonal event. Which simply does not apply in our systems where the lighting and nutrients are much more constant. And we harvest some regularily.

Additionally local members who have had those rare events report that nothing seems to be hurt and the filter feeders just got a little more food for a day or two.

 

[Anonymous]

i think what bob means is asexual... and "nutrients" is a very broad term.
caulerpa "going asexual" may be related to iron deficiency in the water column. it can be purchased as an additive but i suggest you look at a new nitrate test kit or borrow one.

i am starting to think maybe your hermits fell prey to bigger hermits and your nitrate kit is whacked.

i don't suggest you add that caulerpa as i hate the stuff in my tank. i have been trying to rid myself of it for a very long time.

 

[postie]

Buying the calerpa at auction, only about an hour or so left....so any more opinions on the calerpa before I purchase?

 

[Chemical_Whore]

I would suggest you get podman to send you some save on the action and just pay for shipping sense he wants it gone, and you want it.

 

[postie]

If it's the green calerpa, I don't think I would want it. I had some of that before in the 90-gallon and also some in a small tank. About once a month, all I saw was fog from that stuff. I didn't know if the red grape calerpa was a better choice or not...but I don't like the green stuff for sure.

 

[HClH2OFish]

In that time (this past month), I've done in the neighborhood of 12-14 water changes (3 gallons at a time).

A 5 year old tank, with recent lapses in normal maintenance, right?

I'd pull the biowheel if you haven't already. Pull the filter and give it a good cleaning.

Then I'd start with a much larger water change than what you have been doing. If your nitrates are really that far off the charts, a 15% water change every other day isn't going to touch it. Check out http://www.melevsreef.com for some info on how he brought a tank with high nitrates down really quickly. Links should be the 55 gal that he got that was in bad shape.

Hope this helps.

 

[sawyerc]

I'm curious about the bio wheel. As Sugar said, biowheels are nitrate factories.

You will usually hear this explanation:
Biowheels and wet/dries house only aerobic bacteria which convert nitrite to nitrate but can't do anything about that nitrate. On the other hand, your live rock has both anaerobic and aerobic bacteria so it not only produces nitrates from nitrites, but also gets rid of the nitrates.

The usual problem is that people have algae blooms because nitrate is available in the water and algae uses it faster than live rock can. By eliminating the biowheel and using only live rock, there is never any nitrate present in the water since conversion to and from nitrate happen in the same location. Therefore, getting rid of your biowheel gets rid of your algae problem. However, you say that you don't have an algae problem, so it seems that the biowheel can't be doing any harm. Even it it produces nitrates, the anaerobic bacteria in the live rock and substrate should be able to eliminate the nitrates just as well as if the live rock itself had converted the nitrite to nitrate. It still might be worth trying to go without the biowheel for a while, carefully monitoring your nitrate and ammonia levels for signs of danger.

I hope that makes some sense and that both you and your aquarium have a speedy recovery.