ich infestation PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!!!

[MandarinFish]

I've got something to say...

can I buy the next hybrid tang you come across? I cured lateral line in my purple tang, an injury to my hippo, and have a fat/happy yellow too.

I've learned to only feed my homemade food to fish when they're sick. Does wonders in small doses.

Nice fish STR.

Rich - my point is strep would have killed me. Spidermites have killed plants of mine, even when they were seemingly exterminated. Both are virtually omnipresent and have dormancy periods in healthy organisms or are at least kept at bay.

It's not beyond the realm of possibility that fish host potentially deadly organisms, that, upon their immune systems being compromised, begin infection.

Believe me, I want ich dead, dead, dead. I'd always thought it died w/out a host, but it seemed it persisted for some reefers. I understand using fresh dips (or medicated even) for ill fish, but f/w dips as a matter of practice for healthy animals leaving a store or showing up at a home isn't something I buy 100%. Of course, most LFS'es keep fish in copper, right?

 

[Anonymous]

It's not beyond the realm of possibility that fish host potentially deadly organisms, that, upon their immune systems being compromised, begin infection.

Yes but again, with regard to C. irritans, there is nothing that savage or uncanny about it. Rich's analogy is a good one. It's simply a small animal that can be erradicated, and be kept out of the system.

I had a moving disaster, I had my fish in buckets. The temp dropped into the 60's for over 24 hours. Did my fish get ich? Nope.
Why? Because it wasn't in my system, and that was no accident.

Jim

 

[MandarinFish]

Don't get me wrong - if ich were a guy, I'd kick him in the groin.

What about oodinium? Can that be eliminated from a system?

How long in a qt tank does it take to make sure ich dies the ugly brutal death it deserves?

Are fish in an established system essentially disease-free, regardless of stress or diet (LLE)? Or is it cryptocaron irritans exclusively that permanently loses out once it's lifecycle is done?

 

[Anonymous]

Or is it cryptocaron irritans exclusively that permanently loses out once it's lifecycle is done?

It cannot spontaneously generate where it previously did not exist any more than an Empereor angel can. Can sub-acute infections persist unknown to the aquarist for an extended period of time? Yes it seems so.

As far as fish in an established system being disease free across the board, well nobody can make this statement across the board. Any parasite that cannot get what it needs will perish after a period of time. Be it a protozoan, metazoan isopod, or worm. There are internal parasites of all kinds though, or maybe there is a gram negative bacterial infection just under the premaxilary that is just wating for the opportunity to rear it's ugly head. Maybe the fish has an internal tumor. You just don't know. Oodinium? Frankly I've dealt with that one only rarely, and it's been years.

C. irritans is what we speak of, and is the most common pathogen seen by far.

How long in the Q-tank? With a salinity of 1.009, 6 weeks will do it.
Keep it OUT of the system, and you will never have it. It can be done, I've done it. It can also be erradicated in a system that still has fish in it. What happens is that the resident fish build up an immunity, and the parasite after a time (although the infection may exist for a time in a sub-acute state) is unable to reproduce enough theronts to maintain it's population in the system. It is then GONE, unless reintroduced. This is especially true in modern reef tanks where any number of corals and such feed on microscopic organisms.


Jim

Again, I type like the wind - errors exist. :wink:

 

[SavetheReefs]

Can sub-acute infections persist unknown to the aquarist for an extended period of time? Yes it seems so.

This is a very important statement. Unless hypo salinity is practiced to the T, when introducing a new fish to your system how will you know if the fish is ick free (and even then you can't be sure). I am sure I will get some disagreement from the board but there are different stains of ick like there are different strains of diseases. It would be naive to think that the ick that lives in Australia is the same as the ick that lives in Haiti, or Hawaii, or California, and so on. So you could have a "carrier" fish in your tank from The Marshall Islands. And when introduced to your tank with fish from the Red Sea which has never seen that strain of ick before, then all you have to do is add a stressor and now you have some ick infested fish.

I would love to read a study that has been done on how long a sub-acute infection can persist for. And even if a study like thi shas been done, I would think that the experiment would have different results according type of fish, maturity of fish, sex of fish, and so on. If anyone knows of such an experiment please post the link.

SaveTheReefs

 

[Anonymous]

I would love to read a study that has been done on how long a sub-acute infection can persist for. And even if a study like thi shas been done, I would think that the experiment would have different results according type of fish, maturity of fish, sex of fish, and so on. If anyone knows of such an experiment please post the link.

The variables involved here are almost infinite, as will be the results. Type of fish is a biggie. Sex and maturity of the fish though are much less of a factor than the size of the system, population denisty in the system, temperature, coral species involved, and population density of those species, presence of a sand bed, maintenence regime, filtration, etc, etc....

Now think of all possible combinations of the above, and you get the idea.
When the last remaining theront cannot find a fish host in time, the infection is over.

A low level C. irritans infection under the right conditions can last many, many months. Thus the perception by some that "it's always there" Yes, well it very well may have been there since the first fish was put into the system when the aquarist failed to practice proper quarantine procedure. :wink:

 

[MandarinFish]

Thanks Jim. Now you see my point.

CAN it be eradicated completely? Evidently.

Is it LIKELY to persist in some form, or be introduced in seemingly healthy organisms? Yes.

Good discussion. Makes me want to QT much, much more. I have to figure out the right way.

 

[SavetheReefs]

In my proposed test this will be done in a quarantined controlled environment. Single fish, no sandbed or corals, lower salinity around 1.018, and large system so the fish would not feel cramped. This would eliminate a lot of the near infinite results but certainly not all of them.

SaveTheReefs

 

[Anonymous]

Is it LIKELY to persist in some form, or be introduced in seemingly healthy organisms? Yes.

Only if you don't practice proper quarantine procedure. :wink:
Lowering the salinity to 1.009 kills the theronts, not the tomonts, tomites. So, you have to give the life cycle time to complete itself.

 

[cjsrch]

salt waterfish cant get ich :roll: as salt is a ok treatment for ich...


yeah some one yell at me... but i forget what the 'ick' for saltwater is really called personaly i would throw on a uv sterilizer. and do a freshwater dip every day o the fish

OSMOTIC SHOCK BIAAAAAAAAAAATTTTTTTTTTTTCCCC*********

 

[Anonymous]

salt waterfish cant get ich :roll: as salt is a ok treatment for ich...


yeah some one yell at me... but i forget what the 'ick' for saltwater is really called personaly i would throw on a uv sterilizer. and do a freshwater dip every day o the fish

OSMOTIC SHOCK BIAAAAAAAAAAATTTTTTTTTTTTCCCC*********

:?
Read the thread then get back to us.

 

[cjsrch]

didnt see there was a page 2 i opend this the other day befor page 2 .. or half the post were here... one of the programs i have make it so i dont see new post unless i hit refresh a few times..


hmm avg nortan or spyware that is hidden somewhere

last post i saw was the first guy who recomended garlic and btw i used that befor .. and i think my fish avoided my food when i added it...

im a firm beliver in constant weak uv filtration to break down chemicals ( yes ... toxins can be broken down somtimes) and then heavy uv when you get a parisite or somthing ... gotta watch your plankton tho dunt wanna compleatly wipe them out...

 

[Anonymous]

:|

 

[cjsrch]

:roll: :twisted: :? :lol: :? :x 8O :?

lets communicate using faces i guess?

oh also... it seems that the banner ontop of this site( ad) isnt displaying

 

[SavetheReefs]

It was unevitable but the thread has taken a turn for the worse.

I wish there was an eject button.

SaveTheReefs

 

[cjsrch]

aw come on it isnt that bad........ anyways. wheres the guy who started the thread. i want to know if any one died yet O_O oh somthing i do when ever i had a problom in my FW tank. i took all fish out and put them in individual tanks to treat them. that way they couldent harm eachother anymore.. infection wise or if one died it wont poisen the other only problom i ever had was black spot on my clown. and i was told its similar to ich. 3 days of fw dipping fixed the problom.

i think that there is always somthing present in the water that can harm fish .. they just wait for the right conditions .. btw i forget but ich dosnt light .. was it high temp or was it low temp. anyways. with fresh water i changed the temp when ever i got ich gotta find my old books.

 

[Anonymous]

What country are you from cjsrch?

 

[Anonymous]

Sorry about this thread going downhill.

I trust that it ends here.

 

[cjsrch]

im really intrested to know what the heck is going on. he hasnt posted an update O_O wonder if he even saw any of the recomendations O_O poor fish

(Edit)

 

[Anonymous]

Pms sent.