Water changes too frequent

[Anonymous]

make it a garf award and an additional honorary entry to the sally jo hall of fame :lol:

 

[Anonymous]

Bob,

What were your Ca reading before adding the oyster shells? What high calcium demanding inhabitants do you keep? Have you tested your tap water for Ca? What level is it? Do you have numbers of the calcium usage for your system? What is the rate the oyster shells supply the calcium? How often do you need to add more oyster shells due to them being dissolved into your system?

Well thanks for the interest.

My tank only has some snails, clams, and a sps. recently I do have some new corraline (about 10"x4" patch) and last week some newly added halimedia that are just taking off.

My tap does have some calcium carbonate in it.

Let me give you entire picture. I have the 55g display with fish lava and quartz rocks, and silica or quarts HD play sand. I also have a 20g L started with water from the 55g, using the same type sand. both have circulation and both evaporate at the same rate.

Originally using a red sea test kit, both tanks tested at 250-300ppm calcium. the red sea test kit drops are 50ppm increments. I switched to the seachem titration kit where each drop is about 20ppm calcium

I added diy filter box 6"x6" with a partition in the center. The input side from the tank is about 6" tall the outlet is about 3". I filled that box with lava rocks with crushed oyster shells between. So a 6"x3" cross section about 4-6" long was the oyster shells. the box receives water pumped by a mag 5 pumping against 4-5" head for about 250GPH.

After making those changes the 55g calcium rose by about 30ppm calcium a week until it was at 400ppm. I leveled off and stayed there for many months now. About 60% of my weekly measurements were right on 400ppm with the rest either 425 or 385.

Meanwhile, the 20g has remained at 250-300ppm. With no corraline and no snails or clams. It does have caulerpas and chaeto.

Dr. Randy Holmes-Farley stated that calcium carbonate does begin to dissolve at ph of 7.9 or so. I measured my just before lights on ph as ~ 7.8 (aquarium pharm***** test kit brown). Additionally, other sources have stated that caclium carbonate dissolves at ph lower than 8 to buffer water at a ph of 8.2 or so. Daytime ph of the 55g has been 8.4 for two years.

I wash the shells each week and do replace some. It is hard to tell what level of dissolving actually happens because I spill a bunch washing them. I "sift" the shells while washing, and there is always a small amount of small shells that drop through the grid.

A local club member added crushed coral to a trickle filter and his calcium jumped to 500PPM.

I feel the oyster shells are adding calcium to my system. My experience is about the best scientific investigation possible given the measurement equipment used. The results are well beyond the precision and accuracy of the test equipment and the control 20g did not experience the calcium rise.

The sps has shown 1/2" or so of growth each month.

Becausl all my parameters never vary anymore, I did stop measuring things last Jan but did a couple of calcium tests after adding the halimeda last week. It was received all white, has greened up and is senting out new "coins" or "leaves". Calcium days after adding was still right on 400PPM.

ca 400ppm alk 2.o meg/l

 

[Anonymous]

I want to see a pic of that clam and sps

 

[Anonymous]

I want to know the ca reading of his tap water.

 

[Anonymous]

It must be 400ppm since he says he doesnt dose?

 

[polcat]

Bob, with alk of 2.0 meq/l you are seriuosly low on buffer, which in my mind says the shells aren't working.

 

[Anonymous]

I also want to know what lighting is being run his tank

 

[Anonymous]

Ok the clams are just the little itty bitty 1" hitch hiker types and only a couple.

the sps is small

Calcium of my tap water is the same for both tanks. Both with the same evaporation rate and percentage. Yet the 20g stayed at 250-300ppm the 55g rose to and stayed at 400ppm

400-420ppm and 2.0 meg/L are really close to ocean values from the 3-4 references I have read. Additionally inland aquatics reports those values are more the sufficient for the sps they grow commercially.


Again two seperate systems, same water, same substrate. The one with crushed oyster shells rises to and stays at 400ppm ca. The one with no oyster shells remains at 250-300ppm. You simply can't get much closer to a lab grade experiment than that. And verified with another hobbiest whose calcium rose to 500ppm with crushed coral in a trickle filter.

 

[Anonymous]

It must be 400ppm since he says he doesnt dose?

That's not necessarily true. If the tap water was say 50ppm and he added 1 gallon of water tap water a day it could easily maintain a Ca of 400ppm if the consumption rate was low, like 1ppm per day.

 

[Anonymous]

I still want to see a pic..at 1/2in a month it should be atleast that big...and whats your lighting..and ocean water runs about 380ppm

 

[Anonymous]

I also want to know what lighting is being run his tank

~400w

top are 6500k 2 utility fixtures overdriving 2x the 4 tubes to an estimated 55w/tube. In tank refugium lights are 2 utility fixtures with 4 40w NO 4100k and non overdriven. total cost $50 with tubes. :lol:

 

[Anonymous]

If the tap water was say 50ppm and he added 1 gallon of water tap water a day it could easily maintain a Ca of 400ppm if the consumption rate was low.

true...

 

[Anonymous]

It must be 400ppm since he says he doesnt dose?

That's not necessarily true. If the tap water was say 50ppm and he added 1 gallon of water tap water a day it could easily maintain a Ca of 400ppm if the consumption rate was low, like 1ppm per day.

then the calcium in the 20g long with the same water and evaporation rate should have increased also. Additionally, both tank had been in operation for well over a year. but both were 250-300ppm. Again the only thing that could have risen the calcium in the 55g and only in the 55g is the crushed oyster shells.

 

[Anonymous]

Dr. Randy Holmes-Farley stated that calcium carbonate does begin to dissolve at ph of 7.9 or so. I measured my just before lights on ph as ~ 7.8 (aquarium pharm***** test kit brown). Additionally, other sources have stated that caclium carbonate dissolves at ph lower than 8 to buffer water at a ph of 8.2 or so. Daytime ph of the 55g has been 8.4 for two years.

There's more to it than just PH. ALK also has to be low (which yours is) but the rate is really slow until PH gets below 7.0.

From what I have been reading lately though, if ALK is low (<2.5Meq/L)and Ca is reasonable (400 is reasonable) then the Calcium carbonate skeletons of your corals should also start to dissolve with the low PH.

Perhaps your calcium level is coming from your corals! That would explain why your tank without the corals has low Ca. I don't really believe this is the case but it's just as likely as the Oyster Shell theory.

 

[polcat]

That explains the yellow look. Bob, ever consider running a couple 10K's in there?

 

[Anonymous]

Again the only thing that could have risen the calcium in the 55g and only in the 55g is the crushed oyster shells.

Not really. What's the ALK, PH (min & max), and magnesium level in the 20? If the PH in the 20 often gets above 8.5 Calcium could precipitate. If ALK is very high then Calcium could precipitate. If Magnesium is very low then Calcium could precipitate. If you have an overheating powerhead then Calcium could precipitate. If you have more algae in the 20 then it could be consuming more Calcium.

There's more than one variable when considering multiple tanks.

 

[Anonymous]

Dont think that sps will last under low lighting then..

 

[Anonymous]

Dont think that sps will last under low lighting then..

Montipora digitata (I think that's what he has) can do OK under that lighting in my experience. I'm quite skepical about 1/2" a month though.... That would surprise me.

 

[Anonymous]

Sure seems like 1/2" or so. Well so I exxaggerated. would 1/4 of 1/8" still be good enough?

My main problem Is I keep fragging them by accident. So I now have 2-3 frags that didn't take off and 3-4 that are still growing.

Chris,
I've just got 6 Normal Output 40w fluoresent bulbs (total of 240 watts), and they're in shoplight fixtures that I got at HD. Color temps are 2 actinic, 1 10,000k, 2 6500k and 1 5,000k.
Possibly one of the cheapest reef lighting systems ever devised
Mariner

and further down

Chris,
Yeah, it surprises me sometimes how well things are doing with this light. I'm having good luck with the easier SPS that I've got, (monti's and pocillopora) but I'm not even going to try some of the SPS that I'm sure would need more light.
The "yellow acro" is a frag that Yoda gave me in April. We think it may be a bali slimer, or something close. Here's a pic of it on June 24, 2004

Here it is as of today, August 18, less than two months later.

Mariner

From this thread: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showt ... genumber=2

A local club member with some of the easier sps in there. I think he has pictures on that thread but you do have to be logged in to see. His tank is a 75g.


But then when you consider they have found a reef at 250' deapth using 1 % of the surface par and 5% of the shallow water par, that should not be too surprising.

 

[Anonymous]

But then when you consider they have found a reef at 250' deapth using 1 % of the surface par and 5% of the shallow water par, that should not be too surprising.

You're referring to Deep water coral species that are probably not even available in the hobby. These corals probably grow in terms of inches per century as well. I can assure you that your Montipora wouldn't last a week in that environment.