Cardinalfish - they TRY to breed...Help?

[mpedersen]

Well, the Lattice Cardinals are at it again..the "hen" and male #1 are going through the motions again....it's only a matter of time. I wonder if we'll see any better results with the week or so they've been getting selcon in their feed.

MP

 

[mpedersen]

They did it again...right under our noses....GRRRR - missed another video opportunity!

MP

 

[mpedersen]

Guy, you'll chuckle but I haven't given up on the Selcon soaking...male #1 held for 48 hours this time around. I've set up a breeder net...the "next step". Next time around, I'm separating out the "holding" male.

MP

 

[mpedersen]

Well, I've continued posting our observations and misfortune - last night we missed seeing the actual spawning in a 30 second window - 5 minutes later the male had consumed most (perhaps all) of the eggs. Got some neat vids and pics of the eggs through - posted them on the threads I have going in the breeding forums.

FWIW,

MP

 

[mpedersen]

Well Guy, you and Frank and my voracious margarita males have pretty much convinced me that I'm going to have to try the tumbler route.

I'm very familiar with the concept and setup of an egg tumbler from my Cichlid days. Perhaps all I really need to know is "what's different", if anything, from the tumblers being used for Cardinals vs. African Cichlids?

You still have definite first dibs on some CR. margarita's...I hope my new rotifer culturing skills are making the grade (oh, I've only crashed the cultures a couple times now...)...looks like rotifers are gonna be the only suitable food for the first week or so, and it turns out that our first spawning (held for 11 days) was probably actually held to term...wish I had known to expect such a short incubation period back then!

Pics, diagrams, typed descriptions, anything you'd care to share about your Cardinalfish tumblers would be MOST appreciated! In the interim, I'm going to be blocking out the tank sides, leaving just the front transparent for now. It surely can't hurt and heck, it's an easy thing to try!

Thanks - we'll nail these guys down yet - then I'm off to find Apogon selas (drooling...) With a common name like "Meteor Cardinalfish" how can we go wrong?

(BTW, I've started a thread similar to this one on http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showt ... did=748550 - 5 threads to keep track of is ENOUGH, so I vow no more new threads until the post-larvel stage is reached and I have hard data to report!)


MP

 

[mpedersen]

Guy, you around? We had our 2nd spawning on the Bangaii's earlier today - really thinkin' I might need those tumbler comments

Thanks thanks & thanks! - check the original threads for more details + vids!

Matt

 

[mpedersen]

The vids are up in the breeding forums.

MP

 

[mpedersen]

Well, that brood lasted a whopping 24 hours before the male dropped 'em or ate 'em....

MP

 

[Anonymous]

Guy, you around? We had our 2nd spawning on the Bangaii's earlier today - really thinkin' I might need those tumbler comments

Thanks thanks & thanks! - check the original threads for more details + vids!

Matt

The tumbler should be nearly identical I would think. Maybe more waterflow but not enough to blow them around. Mine is a 2 liter pop bottle.

 

[mpedersen]

Guy - HMM. A 2 liter pop bottle - that seems a bit large for a tumbler?! Let me describe our typical African Cichlid tumblers for in-tank incubation.

Imagine the top half of the tumbler basically being like the lift tube assembly of a quality undegravel filter. this attaches to a larger section, about 2" in diameter and 2" in height. This section is screened to and bottom with a coarse mesh, probably 1-2mm openings. Waterflow is adjusted simply by adjusting the airflow.

I'm gonna have to do some googling to see what's around.

Matt

 

[Anonymous]

Mine is an upside down 2 liter plastic bottle with the bottom half cut off & replaced with nylon screen. The top of the screen is about 1/2" under the water surface. The top of the bottle is at the bottom of a 10 gallon tank with 1/2" PVC tubing supplying a constant flow of water to keep the eggs suspended. Once the eggs hatch the fry swim over the top of the screen to enter the tank.

A difference I can see is that the eggs probably have the same density between fresh & salt, but since saltwater is more dense the Banggai eggs don't sink very fast.

 

[mpedersen]

"ahhhhh" - interesting - I hadn't thought about the egg'd density in saltwater. So what you're saying is that the eggs are basically suspended in the water column? Perhaps as one large mass? In an african cichlid tumbler, we have many loose eggs that rest on the bottom grate, the flow adjusted not enough to lift them off the grate but enough that they "vibrate"...

HMM

Matt

 

[Anonymous]

Keep in mind that I am ignorant of fresh water fish so any comparisons I try are total guesses.

Banggai eggs do sink, just slowly. If they are sitting on a grate then there isn't enough waterflow to oxygenate them in my opinion. When I first strip the eggs they are usually in 1 or 2 distinct masses. These masses break apart over the course of a couple of weeks.

IMO a 2" wide tumbler is just going to cause the eggs to float out of the tumbler unless more of the length is formed with screen material. Just guessing though, I haven't tried it, it may actually work better.

 

[mpedersen]

So basically while the eggs are not suspended due to nuetral bouyancy, there is enough flow in the tumbler to keep them from settling. Or are we talking more like a cone-hatchery used for brineshrimp, where the air release at the bottom prevents stuff from settling?

TTYS,

Matt

 

[Anonymous]

There is just enough flow to keep them mostly suspended. They bump the bottom occationally but not often.

 

[mpedersen]

http://www.jehmco.com/PRODUCTS_/HARDWARE_/Egg_Tumbler/egg_tumbler.html - VERY similar if not exactly the same as what we used in the hatchery for African Cichlids.

Matt

 

[mpedersen]

http://www.sydneycichlid.com/content/?page_id=20 - another similar concept, DIY this time.

MP

 

[Anonymous]

Here's mine. The eggs just kind of roll around where the water comes in, no airstone, the water come in far too fast for the eggs to ever fall into the hole.

 

[Anonymous]

This is the whole incubator. The power filter is behind a screen so the fry can't even get close to the intake. Some of the water is siphoned from the reservoir in the filter to the little container off the side, then siphoned to the pop bottle. The little container on the side is meant to buffer the waterflow. The powerfilter isn't steady so to avoid the fast/slow waterflow I send it to an intermediate container so the waterflow is steady.

Once the eggs hatch the fry just swim up & over the screen on the pop bottle.

 

[Anonymous]

I see no reason why the commercial tumbler wouldn't work as well or better than my DIY thing.