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FragMaster

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Gave in to better judgement finally, GOOD! :)
Sand provides an excellent denitrification source.


I am very happy to see the Lion fat and seemingly happy.


1 down 3 to go though. I see your missing one again. Unless he is hiding?
(black with yellow spots I have know idea what it is as the pic isnt very clear of it? Wrasse maybe?)

So what was wrong with your canon? Bad Processors or shutter sticking?
 

skylab1

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FragMaster":2dykq37j said:
Thats why I stated wholesale/retailers as an example of people who do this and gave you a link. BTW the west coast is littered with them.

There may be littered with them in the west coast, but they are not the one I do business with.

PROVE IT TO ME PLEASE. In order to do that they would have to be selling the fish,or coral for more than 50% more than thier competition Just to be able to recoupe from claims ( shipping to them, materials to the customer, and the cost of the fish and the replacement fish.). This isnt an insurance business man they dont play the odds with out seeing the product. Thats why most all of them only tranship live rock.
( REPUTABLE ONES ANYWAYS)

I don't have to prove it to you, go call up some transshipper and ask them about their policy. Everyone in this business knows how transship works.
With all due respect, you assumed too much my friend.


ESPECIALY of the lion fish. Please be sure the time stamp is on.

I don't use time stamp. Anyone wants to know when the picture are taken, save the file to you HD and check the properties of the file, everything you want to know is there. I don't edit the picture other then resize for upload and web posting.
 

skylab1

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FragMaster":2a8go1e2 said:
Gave in to better judgement finally, GOOD! :)
Sand provides an excellent denitrification source.


I am very happy to see the Lion fat and seemingly happy.


1 down to go though. I see your missing one again. Unless he is hiding?
(black with yellow spots I have know idea what it is as the pic isnt very clear of it? Wrasse maybe?)

So what was wrong with your canon? Bad Processors or shutter sticking?


there are no fish missing. the cardinal is hiding inside the chest. Black with yellow dots is the hogfish.

Auto focus was bad, but they fixed.

Do you or anyone know a good free server where I can upload video files for direct link?

I shot some video of the 5 gallon tank need a good place to upload the files.
 

FragMaster

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Shuck and jive, shuck and jive.

"Transshipper import the fish or coral from oversea wholesaler and ship to LFS national wide. LFS who wish to import their own stock can order through the transshipper on a weekly basis. LFS don't order the stock directly with oversea suppler because most of them don't meet the min. requirment of 15-20 boxes or more each week. Transshipper get their orders from different LFS and order all together. When the shipment arrives, the transshipper seprate each LFS's order and ship it on the connecting flight for out of states LFS. The transshipper never see the fish or corals before it arrives in the U.S. Dead or alive transshipper ship it all to the LFS. Its up to the LFS to claim DOA with the transshipper and LFS still have to cover the first 10% DOA and shipping is never refund. "
Prove it.

I aint call'n nobody. :lol:
 

FragMaster

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Photobucket maybe ?

where is the Hog fish then? He made 4 thats why i said 3 left ;)


"Auto focus was bad, but they fixed. "
There is a "silent" recall going right now from about 5 different camera makers that all used the same processor that goes bad in humid enviorments. Canon, Fuji, Nikon, just to name a few all used it.
It makes the auto focus ,and focus over all go nutz'o just as you are describing.
 

Snake USMC

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Hello People,

I have read your posts and wonder where you are coming from. I noticed one individual did in fact use my system in a 5 gallon tank while my patent was rambling though the patent office and finally made it. So to answer one question, it is patented.

To answer other questions, which dumbfound me. Many on this thread and other threads believe in their heart that reefs are far different than fish. They believe the organisms in these ecosystem have different requirements than other organisms. Granted, some do, but remember fish and corals do live in the very same ecosystem. Thus, what one needs the other needs also. You may not agree, but the water that surrounds both contains the exact very same elements and does not discern between a fish and a coral. The flow rate for the fish is the same as the flow rate for all organisms in that ecosystem. If they are different, then WHY don’t one put as many pumps in the aquarium that is a fish only, as they do with corals. That’s a fact!

As for longevity, remember the bacteria are reproducing as all living organisms do. This is also a bacterial fact. You asked for proof concerning nitrate reduction. On the other thread, I posted an independent test of over 6,000 mg/L of Nitrate reduced to 1.1 mg/L in 7 days. No other product unless they attempt to rip mine can do this at this present time. Then one person asked can it also reduce ammonia (in all it’s forms) and nitrite at the very same time while reducing nitrates and phosphates. So I posted another lab test conduced by the largest environmental lab in the world showing their results and the reduction of the said values.

You accuse me of non science blathering. So I said, if you call these stores etc you can ask them yourself if the products do work in the manner I have stated. Then I was told NO I shall NOT call the stores because that does not prove anything. In other words, what they are saying is, NO I will not call the stores and proved wrong in my thinking. One store has had our system running for over six years, Is that long enough for you? They hold fresh, salt , brackish, and inverts (which corals are considered inverts also) It has worked for them this long without problems. But why are people so afraid and I do mean it when they say afraid to contact them???

Tropical Fish Hobby Mag did a 10 month study on the system and found it to be correct. Two 5 gallons and one 20 gallon. They printed the article but was forced to leave some of the data out because of pressure from some advertisers. But in the article they concluded it did work as I related it to them.

As transshipping I know that business well for I did work in a tropical fish wholesale outlet for years. Thus I know the in’s and out and also know you can have a fish in your tank for three weeks (not stretching the time limit) it is eating and still within 48 hours it dies in the retailers shop.

So as proof, there has been enough posted and related to where you can find it, but either people as I stated before are too lazy or afraid to see the value of this system.

In CB Pets, they are now slowly testing the system and if you go to their thread which they have posted you will see the remarks are totally different than this thread. Maybe it is because the people can SEE what they are speaking about by dropping into the shop.

Also Richard’s wife when feeding the sea horses was to split the food a little with the sea horses and the remainder in their 240 gallon tank, she put all of the M. Shrimp into the sea horse tank. Richard found the filter clogged with dead bodies of shrimp yet, ONLY the values of total Ammonia elevated to 0.25 mg/L (it is NOT ppm, that is only for the measurement of dissolved in water) WOW with all of the dead shrimp it would have destroyed other systems, but not this one. Once he cleaned it out, the system readjusted it self within a day or so without any harm to his seahorses. Your skimmer would have been working over time and your system would have crashed, but mine did not, why - New Science.

So before you make unfounded statements, you first must understand this is a totally different process than what you have been working with. It is the same as you driving a Model T Ford (maybe some of you still are) and driving a Vett (which many of us do) Granted, both will get you from point a to b, but one will do it faster (the 24 hour cycle) and the car will last longer (my cycle without breakdowns)

So if you do agree with me, or do not agree with me, well, that is your right and choice, but remember, you cannot stop this system nor deny it’s existence - it is here and it shall stay.

Respectfully submitted,

Snake

Ps. How many of you have a 5 gallon nano tank with that many fish in so short of time eating that much and still have it alive without massive water changes?
 

skylab1

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FragMaster":2nfteimh said:
Photobucket maybe ?

where is the Hog fish then? He made 4 thats why i said 3 left ;)


"Auto focus was bad, but they fixed. "
There is a "silent" recall going right now from about 5 different camera makers that all used the same processor that goes bad in humid enviorments. Canon, Fuji, Nikon, just to name a few all used it.
It makes the auto focus ,and focus over all go nutz'o just as you are describing.

I am using photobucket now, you can't upload vidoe files.

I am not aware there was a recall on Canon, I better check in on this.

The hog fish is the on in front of the treasure chest, the cardinal is inside.
 

FragMaster

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You may not agree, but the water that surrounds both contains the exact very same elements and does not discern between a fish and a coral.
Your making a point about elements being the same? Yeah..... its called sea water. What is not the same at any given point on the reef are the amounts of nutrients in the water and current ( KEY THINGS THERE SNAKE). Thats why some corals and other critters live at the base of the reef where detrius and nutrients are at higher levels. some corals actualy feed on higher concentrates of detrius.
As well some corals only do well in pristine conditions which occurr higher up. That has to be the single most daming peice of wording you have offered so far with your whole argument and so called scietific data/proof.
"hey guys the air is just as good in Anchorage Alaska as it is in New York city during rush hour! What do you mean you have hay fever and athsma?"

If they are different, then WHY don’t one put as many pumps in the aquarium that is a fish only, as they do with corals. That’s a fact!
No thats refusing to accept facts,and touch down to reality. The "fact" is they do not all require the same water motion,and speed. Fish are free to swim where ever they please in the ocean. That means they have a choice. They live in all levels of flow and turbulence. They do not all like breaking surf,and rushing currents. coral dont either. for the ones that do they make these neat little things called WAVE MAKERS.

Then one person asked can it also reduce ammonia (in all it’s forms) and nitrite at the very same time while reducing nitrates and phosphates. So I posted another lab test conduced by the largest environmental lab in the world showing their results and the reduction of the said values.
In this thread? where?


Tropical Fish Hobby Mag did a 10 month study on the system and found it to be correct. Two 5 gallons and one 20 gallon. They printed the article but was forced to leave some of the data out because of pressure from some advertisers. But in the article they concluded it did work as I related it to them.
By far the biggest bunch of #### you have tried to feed us yet.
I guess they just wanted to waist 10 months of thier lives then huh?




You accuse me of non science blathering. So I said, if you call these stores etc you can ask them yourself if the products do work in the manner I have stated. Then I was told NO I shall NOT call the stores because that does not prove anything. In other words, what they are saying is, NO I will not call the stores and proved wrong in my thinking. One store has had our system running for over six years, Is that long enough for you? They hold fresh, salt , brackish, and inverts (which corals are considered inverts also) It has worked for them this long without problems. But why are people so afraid and I do mean it when they say afraid to contact them???
They are all scientists to right? Who can provide us with detailed
analysis, comparisons, and shelf life too I suppose?
This would be considered more none scientific blathering.
BTW I DID EMAIL CB PETS. I spoke with John and with Mark.
Niether of them could confirm that your system works long term or that it will replace any fitration systems in place now. They told me they are going to switch ONE holding system over to it because of its ability to remove amonia, and LOWER trates. Holding tanks mean jack to hobbiests.
Period. We want to see this work in a reef. Period. If it works like you say and you are and avid hobbiest you have a reef already runnig with it then right? I dont know of any manufacturer that wouldnt put it tothe test onthier own tankas proof. Got some pics of your reef?


ONLY the values of total Ammonia elevated to 0.25 mg/L (it is NOT ppm, that is only for the measurement of dissolved in water)
THEY MEAN THE SAME THING FOR WATER ANALYSIS!!!!

LOOK IT UP "NEW" SCIENTIST!!!!


Ps. How many of you have a 5 gallon nano tank with that many fish in so short of time eating that much and still have it alive without massive water changes?
and one last shot for the road!

HE ALREADY DID A 50% CHANGE A COUPLE DAYS AGO HE POSTED IT IN THIS THREAD!!!!!!


PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE RESEARCH YOUR SUBJECT MATTER BEFORE YOU TRY AND SHOVE IT ON US AS TRUTH!!!





Skylab: I think it is on the newer models only (meaning the ones that came out this past christmas email Canon and they will let you know which models.)

I still cant see the hog fish though to save my life?
 

Snake USMC

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Look on the other nano thread, there are two on this board mister scientist, that is where I posted the data. Also there are phone numbers of other shops who have used the system going on 7 years. Long enough for you?

By the way, I must ask you this? Do you have any knowledge of my science? As for ppm vs mg I already stated the values were the same, but you disregarded it. Again ppm is used for dissolved gas in a liquid, mg/l is dissolved TDS in a liquid. It is not going to change in the science field because you say so or desire it.

Do you use gasoline? Does it work? Why? Do you ask the gas companies to divulge their formulas to see if it works or do you simply buy it?

Concerning reefs, NO coral survives in PRISTINE water. What may appear to be pristine water is not. The nutrient load will vary with time and place but it does not remain the same. That is a fact. I have dove in reefs in South and Centeral America, Hawaii, PI and South East Asia. I do know a little about reefs.

So now lets say what you say is correct concerning the nutrient load different. Do you have any papers that have been done, (not opinions) concerning that? If that is a fact as you claim, the why do people put many power heads in their tanks when it is not necessary? I have found one needs only 10 times flow rate from the top to the bottom and all corals will do very well. So I am asking you mister scientist where has the paper been expressed and verified and who verified it? What methods did they employ? You don’t need a wave maker for my system so that is not damming at all with new science.

Since you have called me a liar, why do you NOT write David Boruchowitz the EDITOR of TFH who was in charge of the test. He did not do the test, but has the data. DO IT!

You do not need to be a scientists to see if a thing functions or not. Do you know why certain cleaners work better than others? Do you know why and how the microchip works in the GSP? Do you know everything about everything you use daily?

Your total DISDAIN for the hard working Local Fish Shops by your comments shows you think of those people as idiots.

If this was the case, then why are they in the tropical fish business and you are not? Why don’t you call some of them that I listed on the other Nano Reef thread and tell them, they cannot justify to their customers ANY products they sell no matter what those produces are, because they do not know the science behind it, and thus are not qualified to comment if it WORKS or NOT. That is your reasoning.

My Grandfather was not a scientist. Yet he discovered an apple who he patented and then sold to Luther Burbank in the early 1900's. He did not need to know how the Golden Delicious Apple, who sprouted in his driveway and was cut down three times mutated to the color gold, or why it was so sweet. He just knew it when he tasted it.

Thomas Edison who only had three months of formal education never held the title of BS from any University that he attended and Graduated from. Yet people consider his a very great scientist because he did not let the little ones bring him down when he invented something such as the phonograph, light bulb and D Current. He worked 20 hours a day and when he died held over 1,000 US Patents.

Then there was the Catholic Priest who formed the basis of Genetics in the 1800's http://www.biopoint.com/engaging/MENDEL/MENDEL.HTM

No, I am not comparing myself to any of these greats, but I do take full credit for my invention which works , no matter if you like it or not.

Now do you have a patent on systems such as I have ?? If you do, will you please give everyone your total knowledge of your research? Do you have any patents? IF so what field? I also hold patents outside Biology.


Here is something to chew on because you seem to have all the answers to questions not addressed.

Rupert Murdoch said:
"Societies or companies that expect a GLORIOUS PAST TO SHIELD THEM FROM THE FORCES OF CHANGE DRIVEN BY ADVANCING TECHNOLOGY WILL FAIL AND FALL," he said in a speech to the Worshipful Company of Stationers and Newspaper Makers.

"That applies as much to my own, the media industry, AS TO EVERY OTHER BUSINESS ON THE PLANET. Power is moving away from the old elite in our industry -- the editors, the chief executives and, let's face it, the proprietors.”

Try to have a nice day.

El Snake O in the Grass O!
 

FragMaster

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So now lets say what you say is correct concerning the nutrient load different. Do you have any papers that have been done, (not opinions) concerning that? If that is a fact as you claim, the why do people put many power heads in their tanks when it is not necessary? I have found one needs only 10 times flow rate from the top to the bottom and all corals will do very well. So I am asking you mister scientist where has the paper been expressed and verified and who verified it? What methods did they employ? You don’t need a wave maker for my system so that is not damming at all with new science.


Actualy EVERY ONE THAT CAN READ HAS THE PROOF!!!!!
It is on EVERY FREAKING MARINE HOBIEST BASED WEB SITE ON THE PLANET! IN MARINE BIOLOGY TEXT BOOKS, TEXT WRITTEN BY TRUE EXPErTS AS WELL AS REAL SCIENTIST, AND I AM SURE IT IS ON THIS WEB SITE AS WELL TOO.

I dont care if you patent dog crap. just because it has a paten dosent change it. Its still dog crap. Just like every attempt you have made to prove anything you have said on this subject. DOG CRAP.
You have mad invalid point after invalid point. Given missinformation and sited them to be scientific facts.

BTW WHRE ARE THE PHOHOS?


You not only failed to adress ANYTHING I called you out on directly,
but you switched focus three different times like a complete baffoon to avoid them all together.

BTW DR DOOLITTLE I ALREADY POSTED YOUR PATEN, that ALSO shows no PRACTICAL USE FOR THE HOME AQUARIUM ONLY A SEWAGE WASTE PLANT, AND LOOKED UP ALL THE NON SCIENTIFIC INFORMATION ON YOUR PRODUCTS WEBSITE (OF WHICH YOU WERE TO AFFRAID TO TELL US EVEN EXISTED!!)

"Your total DISDAIN for the hard working Local Fish Shops by your comments shows you think of those people as idiots"

NOPE JUST YOU.

I never said one bad thing about them


CAN YOU EVEN READ OR IS SOME ONE READING IT TO YOU?


You answer questions with questions and avoid all together those that you can not shoot back in the form of a question.
 

Len

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Just a reminder to keep it civil.

I've bowed out of this conversion because it's going in circles and irrelevant tangents. I am trying not to make conclusions about HLD's product in reef tanks for now. Hopefully, if others are having success with Snake's products, evidence will be forthcoming soon. Time will tell, but thus far, I am not convinced by the paucity of evidence or explantations.
 

Len

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Fragmaster, either demonstrate more respect and civility in your posts or I'm locking this thread and possibly removing your membership access. That means cut out the yelling, caps, bold, excessive punctuations, and especially the petty insults. You've been warned numerous times before. And please don't PM me to argue.
 

RichardS

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FragMaster":1o9y9xj9 said:
BTW I DID EMAIL CB PETS. I spoke with John and with Mark.
Niether of them could confirm that your system works long term or that it will replace any fitration systems in place now. They told me they are going to switch ONE holding system over to it because of its ability to remove amonia, and LOWER trates. Holding tanks mean jack to hobbiests.
Period.

No John at CB Pets. If you emailed then you must be Duane, that was not my response.

Your info is wrong, so much for your wanting to stick to the facts.

Len - skylab starts a thread on his tank, fragmaster can't stop himself from trolling, so skylab's thread gets locked, so fragmaster gets exactly what he wants and off to troll another thread. Forum justice I suppose :roll:
 

Len

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I do not believe Duane is a troll, but misguided and too proud to accept my advice. I could be wrong but I have a bad habit of giving people the benefit of the doubt. I will unlikely lock this thread for the wrongdoing of one individual. There are other actions I can take.

Richard, how have Snake's products worked out for you? Do you have a show tank or personal tank you are using this product in? I am very interested in seeing how Right Now bacteria effects a complex ecosystem.
 
A

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Snake -

Hi, I don't know if you'll read this or if you're done with this thread.

I just wanted to give a perspective from a long term reefkeeper. We are typically conservative in regards to changing methods that work. It does happen but never quickly. I have seen too many hobbiests change too many aspects of their system too quickly and they inevitably exit the hobby after a few catastrophies.

Your product may be exactly as you describe, and it probably is. It will have to survive a period of skepticism from the long term hobbiests though. If the product and your patience survive this period of skepticism then it will most likely become incorporated into the hobby just like Phosban, GAC, live rock, etc. Until then you really should expect resistance. It's not fear of changing to a better method, it's simply caution.

Personally, when I feel a product is being overexplained or claims to cure too many problems it's a red flag and I go into overskeptical mode. This is what has happened from my perspective here. Skylab1 hasn't done you any favors in this regard.

I do wish you the best of luck. It would be an excellent advance in the hobby if the first several months were less error prone.

Guy
 

Snake USMC

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In response to your request, the data presented on the other nano tank board already accomplished what you requested. (Cal Brett) Also the Hyperion Plant in Los Angeles conducted like tests.

What you fail to grasp with this method, is it is not Ammonia dependent. Granted it will consume ammonia in all three forms, but it also consumes other compounds concurrently. If you were simply to inject an ammonia compound and expect it to work, it will not. But if you also inject compounds that are found in the ocean and in waste water, etc then it takes off.

When it is presented to a store, our firm sends out free samples to the store for testing. A small protocol is written up and then the store is contacted about 2 - 3 weeks later. If they have conducted the test, they usually buy. Granted, some do not buy because when faced with new science they cannot understand what they have learned throughout the years is no longer valid when using these compounds.

If you were to ask any other firm in the aquarium business, Coral Life, Kent, etc to give you their documentation, none will. Why, because to do so enables others to made a duplicate. When I spoke to Coral Life about another item a few years back, this was same subject was brought up. He laughed and so did I when he said, the people want our total formulas but they shall not have them. I agree.

As for posting part of my patent, if you knew the law in order to protect the patent, we must list the patent number on our bottles. Then it is very easy to go to the patent office and search that number. It does not take a mental genius to do so. So no harm was done when Frag posted.

Again, since we are speaking of live stock, it is not uncommon for animals to be used to prove a point. In this case, there will be no harm to the organisms, because of the track record of the product. The offer still stands.

Respectfully submitted,

Snake
 
A

Anonymous

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Let's start a poll here, voting to see how many people think this tank, as described, could work as described:

I'll vote first.

A. It's possibly true = 0
B. There's no chance = 1
 
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