May decide to try adding fish one more - Did and Bad news.

[Anonymous]

I thought I should post this history to see where I went wrong.

Tank story to go back in time.

May 2002 - Setup a 46G reef. Tank had softies but I wanted LPS and SPS so I need a tank that can have a good light fixture and a sump for more equipment.

Jan 2003 - Setup my new 58G. Tank has a 4 in DSB of Southdown sand. I cycled the sand and some new LR in the tank for 2 + months. Testing weekly. When the tank was ready I moved it to my living room and moved all the rock/corals/water/fish to the new tank. I took 2 cups of sand from the old tank to try and seed the DSB.

6 months later hair algae started and was here to stay. After a year I removed the DSB (noting no life in the sand). I added a starboard bottom. I incerased the flow. After a year or so of scrubbing the rock to remove the algae that was smothering the corals I had to do something. Either new LR or try cooking. I triedcooking. I left the coral in the tank on a PVC Eggcrate platform and cooked the rock for 10 weeks. Dusiring those 10 weeks I did 100% WC's every 3-4 days, dunked, swished, blasted the LR in the cooking tub. I gave away the fish to the LFS.

Jan 2006 - rebuild
I added all the cooked rock to the tank and all new SW. I aclcimated the corals to the tank 6 hours later. The trank went through the daitom stage and some green hair algae that lasted a month. The corals in the tnak have not grown much since the rebuild and actaully allot lost color. I lost the clam about 2 months after the rebuild.

I have been doing 15G water changes every 2 weeks sice the rebuild. I also blast the LR with a powerhead before changing the water. I aded a CA reactor in March. I clean the skimmer collection cup twice a week.

None of the SPS has adhered to the LR yet (9 months, I am scratching my head at this one). No Coraline has grown on the LR. The coraline on the glass is a light pink and doesn't last long and falls off. The LPS has very pale colors as well.

The tank is boring due to lack of coral color and no fish. After 8 months time to add fish. Another reason for the fish is to feed the tank to hopefully get the corals to rejuvenate themselves.

I use RO/DI/DI with a high silicate removal membrane. I change the DI ever 3 months when the TDS measures anything above 0.

I use the following as well:
Refractometer to measure the salinity.
Pinpoint PH probes (calibrated)
Euroreef ES5-3 skimmer
Gesoreef CA Reactor
Precision Marine Kalk reactor fed by a LitreMeter III for all top off.
Lights - 250W 14K Phoenix (PFO-HQI)) and 2 95W VHO's (Icecap660)
Grounding probe
Tunze Stream 6000
Maxijet 1200
Won titanium heater controlled by a Ranco dual stage controller that also controls a 6 inch clip on fan in the canopy.
IO salt
Salifert test kits (po4, Silicate, Nitrate, PH, Ca, Alk, Magnesium)

 

[Anonymous]

Rob I have been following your tank issues and do not see and onivious reaon why things are not working out for you. IMO you are doing all the right things. Maybe you have radio active water or something???

 

[bleedingthought]

Well, I don't know why, but it just seems like you don't have enough nitrifying bacteria in your tank if it can't handle the introduction of fish. You're right, though, your rock could be shot. :?

If you didn't battle algae for so long, I'd tell you to try and let your water get a little dirty.

 

[Anonymous]

Hi Rob. I too have followed the problems you have been having with distress and sadness. While I am sure that by now you are totally fed up with the whole issue (I certainly would be), if you can summon the motivation up, could you post the following?
Some history of your rock, was it natural or that 'synthetic' stuff. It seems unlikely that natural rock would be leaching anything harmful into the water.
How porous is your rock? You dont seem to be getting any meaningful bacteria colonisation.
What are the chances that you have something unnatural in your equiptment setup? I nearly put a copper coupling in-line when I was first setting my tank up... Is there nothing that could be leaching phosphates, silicates or metals into your water?
There seems little likelyhood that you have a evil hitchhiker like a mantis given your frequent breakdowns.
IM (very)HO you seem to have at least 2 problems. You have a repeating cycle occuring, possibly due to poor bacteria colonisation or due to your regular maintenance-led removal of the bulk of the colonisation (Filter floss, carbon et al) and there seems to be something poisoning your system that you are not picking up in the standard tests. Just my 2c worth-I'm sure someone else would be able to expand on this.

( A few of us here are coming to the conclusion from observation that powerhead sponges, filter floss and carbon- if left long enough- all become host to bacteria populations. The sudden removal of these during a big maintenance session seems to disrupt the 'balance' and create a minicycle as the sysytem struggles to repopulate the 'lost' bacteria. For the purists out there, this is only an observation and we have no actual data to back it up- before someone shouts at me :wink: Take it from whence it comes)

 

[Anonymous]

I dont have any filter floss or sponges in the system. I do not run carbon or anything else for that matter.

IMO it has to be the rock. This rock when I bought it was full of life 4 years ago. When I moved it to the 58G and added the 4in DSB of SOuthdown is when it all went downhill. Its possible the sand that I got had something in it and in turn wiped out the rock. I have not see bug/pod/worm life since moving to the 58G. When I took down the 46 there was tons of creatures in the sand. When I yanked the DSB in the 58G there was NO life in there. This is probably a huge factor here but I have posted this before and most say thats OK and nothing to worry about because the pods wil lcome back. Guess what - NONE are back.

I guess the next step is to tear down the tank and decide to rebuild or not. THis is allot more money and all the livestock that I have now will be given away (I dont know any locals). So buying all new LR for $12/lb adn then waiting 6 months for the tank to cycle/settle then start buying all new corals again is goign to be painful.

 

[Anonymous]

Rob
i geuss its not the recurring cycle issue then. Looking at your timeline from your earlier post, it seems that the problem started with the move to the 58Ga. Prior to that it looks like you were on track with the rock. As a geuss I would say that you have something in your equiptment that is leaching toxins into your water that are undetectable with standard hobby test kits.Its a stupid question, but are you dosing any additives and if so, what? I know that in a fit of panic I bought some 'organic medication' that professed to cure Ich and cancer and AIDS and...and...when I had an Ich problem. I woke up before using it but it was a close thing....Who knows what that would have introduced to the system- no ingredients listed....
The whole situation seems a bit mysterious to me, I'm sure that with enough input from the heavyweights here you will get to the bottom of it.

 

[cindre2000]

I have two suggestions. First, if you do buy rock, do not buy local if it is $12/lb. Buy it online for $4-5/lb, I have always done that with decent success- never really got anything horrible looking and it always bounced back (just be picky). Secondly, do some research- do you have a non-LFS, anything within 'driving' distance. I know I have to drive an hour to get to one around here.

Oh yeah, I have not really followed your progress but: maybe your bulb is old, or too strong (coral to high) or maybe you need a more "daylight" spectrum to get good growth, or maybe something is poisoning your system. You could do an extremely detailed background on your system and try to figure out if anything you put in or on your system might leach. And you could as for a water contaiminents break down from your local water company.

Thats all I have for now.

 

[Anonymous]

The reason I dont want to order online is I dont want to sure the LR from scratch. I live in a small condo and dont have a place to cure the LR and not having the smell of low tide in my living room. So buying the rock local/cured should cut down on the smell.

The bulbs are 8 months old. The corals have not grown at all. The corals are at differrent levels in the tank as well.

 

[bleedingthought]

12 bucks a pound is ridiculous. :?

There's gotta be another store in NY that has better service and cheaper rock that the ones closest to you!

If you drive out to get the rock (you gotta be able to find rock that's 7 or 8 bucks per pound - and if you order enough of it, they should cut you a break anyways. Usually, they'll go down 50 cents or a dollar after a certain amount) you could keep it in an insulated box and just pop it in your tank. No need to cycle again, no bad smell, no hassle. Even if you have to drive 4 hours.

Another thing you could try is starting a bacteria colony in your tank. You could use sponges or something close. For example, you keep three sponges in your sump and let them stay there for a month or so and then clean one individually every 2 weeks or every month and put the one back. Then, next time move on to the other one. That could help you out.

Just some ideas. HTH.

 

[cindre2000]

Now I may be saying some things about my style but: I have yet to cure rock in a seperate tank. I have had die off yes, but I have never had a real problem. However, since you have coral in your tank, it might be a problem if the live rock shipped to you has a lot of dead or dying material.

I agree that you might want to consider a long drive to get to a good store. Just call them a head of time.

Also your bulb is getting a bit old, i think. Have you been having rising algae problems lately?

Oh, do you have a picture of your tank, or maybe one in a different thread, I would love to see it. (I am sure your tank is not as bad off as mine.)

 

[Anonymous]

Here is a pic from a month ago.