SeahorseWhisperer_":2o1rsjn0 said:
I can't see why you two can't both be right. The cool thing about getting more than one opinion is that it encourages us to try new things, to not get locked into just one way. Our hobby will be stagnant if we can't see more than one way to make it better.
How about some substance instead of just verbage? The thing is, there's actually a right answer here
IMO if you seek to do what is best for the animals in your care. I'll say it over and over again, you er in favor if the animal. It really comes down to common sense and logic. All the information you need to make an informed decision about the nutrition of your pet is at your fingertips, no Google necessary.
What we first look at when determining what any captive animal should be fed, and this goes for raptors, reptiles, fish, whatever - is what they eat in the wild. Mother nature is pretty good at figuring things out, and second guessing mother nature and deciding you know something better is a slippery slope with regard to captive husbandry, on ANY level, not just nutrition. This goes for anyone, be it you or a zoo, or an aquarium. Most public aquariums and such however are models in this regard - but not all.
If a monitor lizard evolved for millions of years basking for several hours a day in the sun of Tanzania, I'm not going to assume that a 100 watt incandescent bulb will be sufficient for his needs and to heck with UV light. Can I do a boat load of research as to the benefits of UV and UVB light with regards to it's relationship health and to the synthesis of vitamin D3? I can, and I have, (dietary information is again, not proprietary) but I didn't need to. I knew from a common sense, logic, intuitive level that these lizards need sun for long term health, period. I also knew that lacking information as to the levels of vitamin D that V. albigularis or any other varanid was capable of utilizing, that simply adding it to their diet and forgoing sunlight was again, a slippery slope. There may also be benefits of sunlight that are not so easily identifiable through casual observation, as is the case with humans.
So what do I do?
I er in favor of the animal, which is what I said in my original post regrading Tangs and macro algae.
I also know, from that ever pesky common sense/logic standpoint that those who have maintained these animals under artificial light conditions for 4 years and counting are a testament to nothing. These lizards can live for 26 years in captivity, and all records have been set by those maintained with access to natural sunlight.
With regard to the feeding of in this case Varanus albigularis (the same can be applied to any animal, other monitor lizards or fish) We look at what it eats in the wild. In case of this species, it's giant land snails, pit vipers and other snakes, other lizards, eggs, insects and carrion. Does he eat just meat? No, he eats the bone, the lungs, the liver, the heart, etc...all things with varying nutritional content. Now, can I do research as to the nutritional value of whole food items vs a piece of steak? Sure! And I have. Did I need to? Not really. I know from being around a while that muscle tissue contains different and limited nutritional value in comparison to other organs and such. I also know that's what he's eating, so that's what I feed him. I also feed him ground turkey, scrambled eggs mixed with bone meal and vitamins. Good stuff, but my lizards fed mostly whole food items outlived those at the San Diego zoo feeding only the ground turkey diet. One of my males was also the largest in captivity in the world, so I'm thinking my husbandry philosophy might have some merit.
I've approached every species kept the same way, and I've worked with 8 or so different species of varanids, and have contributed to scientific papers on 3 species.
If raptors are fed only meat, then decline rather rapidly. Why? They eat whole food items in the wild, and all the vitamins contained therein. The effects of malnutrition induced by the feeding of only meat on many of these birds can be acute, and set it rapidly.
That information courtesy of conversation I had years ago with people who work with these animals.
With regard to tangs for any other marine fish, nothing changes. We look first at what their natural diet is, and that's what we seek to duplicate. If not the natural diet, then the
nutritional equivalent. This is just part of sound husbandry philosophy, nothing fringe going on here. Again, as with the monitor lizards kept under normal light bulb or being fed hamburger for 4 years, someone maintaining a fish on lettuce for 4 years is testament to nothing, the lifespan of these animals far eclipses that.
We don't look at macro algae and wonder if the tang can actually absorb and utilize all of those vitamins - that would be silly beyond silly - it's the fish's natural diet!! Not only is lettuce far inferior to macro-algae, the soils that many crops are grown in these days are nutrient depleted. Bad news. This can be mitigated somewhat by feeding lettuce grown organically, but on it's best day it's not going to compare to Nori.
Just use common sense. You don't need exact nutritional breakdowns of every food item. You need to know what the critter eats in it's natural habitat, and whether or not what you're offering matches that. It's clear where romaine lettuce stands with macro-algae in this regard.
A final note on nutritional density - animals and people will compensate for lack of nutritional density by eating MORE food. You will find that if you eat foods that are more nutrient dense, your body will crave less food.
It's the same with fish.
A tang will eat lettuce all day, but will require less nutrient dense food by weight (Nori) to stay healthy and grow. Again, as pointed out earlier, the diet should be varied. The point is, lettuce is not a suitable staple.
That's not Google working for you, heck I learned that when studying aquaculture and raising fish for my senior project back in high school back around 88.
Here's a good Link I just found...how about that? :wink:
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/FA145
The animals in your care have multiple challenges to overcome, er in their favor if possible. That at least is my point of view. Marina is not stupid, nor does she lack experience, and her advise is normally on the money. I would submit that in this case...that may not be so...I'll leave that to you. I'm done commenting on the matter, and letting my ego get in the way of saying what really should be said. Hopefully what I said makes sense to you... I can assure you it's the product of years of hard earned knowledge - not Google.
Regards
Jim
edited for spelling.
