total system water volume?

[House of Laughter]

J, consider a RDSB in the equation - as noted by shaun

Also, regardless - large water changes = swings in Dkh, Ca and Mg levels as well - so, you can increase your water change to decrease your Po4 and No3's but at the same time you're going to dilute the others unless you put it back in exactly as it tests coming out

JMO

House (plum-ito ergo sum)

 

[ellebelle]

My head is spinning like that ball of Chaeto.

:lol2: Randy.

 

[jhale]

Jim, I always match the new water parameters to the tank, or adjust them to achieve the desired levels I want. I find it's easy to change the water in the mixing bucket, not so good when you discover you just dumped in 50 gallons at 300CA into the tank.

 

[Tim]

Just have me come and do water changes for you once a week

 

[Sean]

I've set up for a client similar to what you're talking about.

It's a 650 gallon tank with a 180 gallon refugium and a 200 gallon sump
he has two 200 gallon reservoirs stacked on top of one another. The top has an RO attached to it and a valve opens up to fill the bottom one. He then mixes the salt in the bottom one for water changes. He loves it a bit too much in fact I only go to see the tank twice a year ad it's usually to change the bulbs or something like that.

Also I believe highly in a large sump to increase the water volume. If you know David Saxby's tank It's a 1500 gallon tank with a 1500 gallon sump. It doesn't replace good husbandry but a 3000 gallon tank can handle a lot more fish then a 1500 gallon one.

 

[jhale]

thanks for the description Sean.

I guess the downside is if you do let the water changes slip in a high volume system your going to be hard pressed to make enough water to make a dent in the high levels.

 

[Sean]

http://www.ultimatereef.com/TOTM/2007_jan/

sorry I just looked it up David Saxby's tank is only 1200 gallons with a total water volume of 3700 gallons:shocked:

 

[Sean]

thanks for the description Sean.

I guess the downside is if you do let the water changes slip in a high volume system your going to be hard pressed to make enough water to make a dent in the high levels.

the same problem in a small volume system it's all relative

 

[tadashi123]

as the mantra goes, "dilution is the solution to pollution"... however you would need a crazy skimmer upgrade since you're looking at 3-5x tank turnover through the skimmer. This is also where dilution is a double edged sword.. you would only efficiently skim when you reach a treshhold in DOC density in your water. You would need the same level of DOC saturation in your 180g display + 120g sump + 120g water change tank. as you would a stand alone 180 g display. But you would need an appropriately rated skimmer for 420 gallons just to reach the same resolution of skimming capacity. this, and the added expense of salt, makes for smaller returns on larger system volumes.

 

[jhale]

great point. I had not even thought of the skimmer.

 

[Bob 1000]

I have run my 180 with 125 sump/refugium for a couple of years feeling really good about it...
I recently started overfeeding to push the limits of my system and started to grow more green algae then purple... But I also realized that I created an excellent enviroment for my tangs.... Today marked day 17 without feeding them... I did throw some chromis eggs in the tank during the night cycle the past 4 days but they didn't wake up for feeding...They are all still fat and healthy... But today I noticed my purple coralline out growing the green that the tangs feed on... So I guess today really started the no feeding thing to lower my nutrients....
Not for nothin, My corals never missed a beat the colors never budged... My purples still look blue and my greens just as bright as they did before I started overfeeding...

I have always went with a 3/4 sized sump since my first tank that was a 125 with a 72 gallon sump...12years ago.. It's just the way I learned this hobby...Now I think it's an excellent way to feed your display nutrients, copepods, good bacteria, and things I have yet to learn about...

I think having a bigger fuge/sump just allows for more error without consequences...Sometimes

By the way I did a big water change 70 gallons last week...

 

[jhale]

Bob a water change?! the sky must be falling

 

[Bob 1000]

I started getting scared for a yellow with purple polyps frag I just got about 2 or 3 days ago... But it seems to be doing well no color loss... Normal great polyps extension like the rest of my acros..

 

[jhale]

I know you like the de-nitrater and all, but a water change also adds a whole bunch of trace elements the corals need. keep them up, good things will happen

 

[Bob 1000]

Oh I know that, and I add a lot of trace elements... Just recently started with potassium iodide though...
You guys really thought I just starved my system of nutrients like that... I 'm starving my fish now, but you wouldn't be able to tell by looking at my tank... Maybe the filter socks..lol

 

[jhale]

don't starve the fish it's not worth it.

 

[tadashi123]

not to go off tangent, but bob, what kind of denitrator do you run?

 

[bigbris1]

To reiterate:

Be The Man, Jon. Run sumpless with a huge WC reservoir. While the new water ages, test & make sure it closely matches the tanks water in respect to desired element levels.

I still think the change-o-presto simultaneous drain & refill is the way to go. Plus you lower the shock factor & the tank never has to stop running.

Picture this:

You're sitting in your favorite chair, Scotch in hand, conversing with friends. A barely audible series of clicks, then "whoosh" is heard at which the friend closest to the tank asks, "what was that", to which you reply, "Oh, that's just a water change happening."
"A what?"
You reveal what's really hidden behind all of that simple, timeless but expertly crafted cabinetry to the awe of all & explain how it's automation allows for times like this.

 

[fritz]

I'm building a similar system now but with 37 gallon rubbermaid brutes.

To answer your question though, as to volume needed for stability, I would say somewhere between the Indian Ocean and Pacific Ocean although the Atlantic seems very shaky to me. Perhaps somewhere between the Atlantic and Pacific in terms of volume. I think that would be stable as your evaporation would be enough to create rainstorms thereby keeping the system pretty stable. I guess technically a Lake Erie sized volume would easily make rain storms but it would also give you lake effect snow and that would suck in your apt. Ocean sized volumes though wouldn't freeze really so that would certainly be preferable to something lake sized. I'd check local NYC ordinances before trying to get an ocean onto the 2nd floor. You might want to also consult an engineer.