Should people that own fish/coral stores be allowed to buy from members on MR?

[AlohaTropics]

Lol, I love this hobby but everything from retailers, forums, farmers right down to the hobbyists...........ssssshhaaaaaaaady! but i still love you guys.

 

[BIG L A]

I don't think its cool for vendors to buy and re-sell at a higher price... I know of one vendor that beat me at buying a frag tank that was sold at a great price, I thought it was a lil crazy but didn't make anything of it... About 3 weeks later I go to the store being that its in Brooklyn and the frag tank wasn't there... The people at the store looked at me like I had ten heads when I mentioned MR (they didn't no what I was talking about)... I think that's straight BS...

Oh... and what I forgot to mention is that the person said they would set it up in the store...

 

[KathyC]

The weasels are the ones posing as non store owners or saying the stuff is for their personal tanks then you find it for sale in their store, forum, on another site. What it boils down is some people are taking advantage of others generosity, naivety or just plain old goodness and profiting off of it quite a bit. That is a scumbag thing to do.

Agreed.

And I do NOT think that the seller should have to qualify on their thread that they will or won't sell to a vendor. A seller has the right to sell (or not sell) to anyone they please with no repercussions.

 

[SevTT]

There is no difference. The point in both cases is that on a hobbyist board those deals should go to other hobbyists not vendors/shops who then turn around and make profit on them.

It is also very different for hobbyists who farm corals and develop relationships with vendors/shops and supply them with corals than for vendors to troll the hobbyist for sale threads and buy stuff for resale thus depriving hobbyists of those same deals.

On the one hand, if both parties are satisfied with the sale, I don't really care much. (I'm getting ready to trade some kenya tree frags in at my LFS. I know he'll get twice or thrice what I'll get, but this is zero-effort for me, so I can't give a damn. ) On the other hand, selling things from the Freebie Board should be met with nothing but derision and insults, and cornering the market on corals which could be sold expensively but are offered for sale more cheaply with the idea of helping out the numerous poor bastards who are on this site (like me ) really ticks me off.

Ideally, I think it'd be up to the seller; things could be up for grabs to anyone, or limited to non-retail members ... whatever. But that'd require some police work, as it were.

Also, I should say that I have no problem with a retailer getting a colony from someone, growing it out, and then reselling frags. I do have a problem with 'flippers'.

 

[SevTT]

100% correct, no further discussion required...please note, I am a auto wholesaler by trade, I buy and sell ANYTHING, that I see a profit in... as for my HOBBY, I have purchased 3 complete 90g systems in the past few months from MR members, I keep what I want and sell off or trade the extra stuff, many members have gotten very good deals from me, and there is NO way (unfortunately) that I'll ever have a PROFIT from this trading. The hope/goal is to help reduce hobby related expenses.

I don't have a problem with reselling in general, but I have a great deal of a problem when someone's offering an item for sale, cheaply, to members, in a 'keep the hobby spreading' attitude, only to have it snapped up and resold for profit. So long as the buyer's open about what he's doing, that's cool.

 

[Aqua Pro Builder]

lets keep the DBTC thing going, that's one of the best way to defeat profit minded purchases or sale within the site.

 

[MO~IDOL]

lets keep the DBTC thing going, that's one of the best way to defeat profit minded purchases or sale within the site.

yeah more chance for spammer!!!

 

[Aqua Pro Builder]

yeah more chance for spammer!!!

hmm, how DBTC relates to spammer-I am too slow(getting old) to see the relations.:shhh:

 

[MO~IDOL]

hmm, how DBTC relates to spammer-I am too slow(getting old) to see the relations.:shhh:

many ppl have got corals from the DBTC how many have you c passing it on I know some reselling it:shhh::shhh::shhh:

 

[Aquatic Life Direct]

Not Cool!

 

[Chiefmcfuz]

The DBTC program got inundated with people looking for choice free stuff and yes now that the novelty has worn off they are selling stuff. Again you are/were dealing with trust in others not to violate the rules you set up for the DBTC frag but weasels and wolves were out there waiting to jump on things and for time enough to pass to sell things unnoticed.

Wes gave me a coral 2 years ago at the Pace swap. I watched him give other corals to other people for free too. I also couldn't believe that those same people were selling those frags for close to retail price not too long after. I lost my frag in my crash, but others made a killing off of it. There are more examples from the past and more recently that I am sure people could expand on but it would be pointless. Weasels and wolves will always be just that, weasels and wolves.

 

[Chraddam]

And I say it again...as a noob to the hobby and the board, the concern here should be for the CORAL REEFS, NOT the $ involved. Fragging alone can sustain the hobby, there is no reason to support the raping of nature for profit...there aren't that many LFS as it is, and it seems as though there is at least one closing every week. I feel for them from a business perspective, but look at it this way-thousands of cats and dogs are put down in shelters every year while breeders make a fortune-is this where we want our hobby to end up??? I doubt that anyone aware of the damage being done to the reefs would willingly give money to continue that destructiveness when they can buy or trade frags and save the reefs. I think it is our responsibility to keep them alive, not just in our tanks but in our oceans. There's my 2 cents.

 

[SevTT]

And I say it again...as a noob to the hobby and the board, the concern here should be for the CORAL REEFS, NOT the $ involved. Fragging alone can sustain the hobby, there is no reason to support the raping of nature for profit...there aren't that many LFS as it is, and it seems as though there is at least one closing every week. I feel for them from a business perspective, but look at it this way-thousands of cats and dogs are put down in shelters every year while breeders make a fortune-is this where we want our hobby to end up??? I doubt that anyone aware of the damage being done to the reefs would willingly give money to continue that destructiveness when they can buy or trade frags and save the reefs. I think it is our responsibility to keep them alive, not just in our tanks but in our oceans. There's my 2 cents.

That's not quite true. It's been shown that enlightened reef management and harvesting can be beneficial for reefs. That, and the only way to get some animals is to harvest them from a reef.

That being said, this board exists to further the reefkeeping hobby. It's in our best interest to keep the reefs healthy and vital, but not necessarily to leave them untouched. But if we had such an abundance of frags of all sorts that we had to 'put them down', we'd be doing -great-.

 

[InfernoST]

And I say it again...as a noob to the hobby and the board, the concern here should be for the CORAL REEFS, NOT the $ involved. Fragging alone can sustain the hobby, there is no reason to support the raping of nature for profit...there aren't that many LFS as it is, and it seems as though there is at least one closing every week. I feel for them from a business perspective, but look at it this way-thousands of cats and dogs are put down in shelters every year while breeders make a fortune-is this where we want our hobby to end up??? I doubt that anyone aware of the damage being done to the reefs would willingly give money to continue that destructiveness when they can buy or trade frags and save the reefs. I think it is our responsibility to keep them alive, not just in our tanks but in our oceans. There's my 2 cents.

Well said. We should be doing everything we can to help one another and the reefs not the greedy money mongers whose only interest is what's in their pocket. To make a correlation, Greed has put this country in the pickle it's in now and these people whom are responsible could care less about the damage caused and the lives they destroyed. We can't allow that to happen to our natural reefs and Hobby as well and believe that we should not support these greedy retailers and sellers who wouldn't think twice about wiping out a reef to fill their pockets. I also have very little respect for someone who takes advantage of good people by taking their free offerings not for their enjoyment but to make a buck.

 

[Awibrandy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chraddam

And I say it again...as a noob to the hobby and the board, the concern here should be for the CORAL REEFS, NOT the $ involved. Fragging alone can sustain the hobby, there is no reason to support the raping of nature for profit...there aren't that many LFS as it is, and it seems as though there is at least one closing every week. I feel for them from a business perspective, but look at it this way-thousands of cats and dogs are put down in shelters every year while breeders make a fortune-is this where we want our hobby to end up??? I doubt that anyone aware of the damage being done to the reefs would willingly give money to continue that destructiveness when they can buy or trade frags and save the reefs. I think it is our responsibility to keep them alive, not just in our tanks but in our oceans. There's my 2 cents.

DITTO

Well said. We should be doing everything we can to help one another and the reefs not the greedy money mongers whose only interest is what's in their pocket. To make a correlation, Greed has put this country in the pickle it's in now and these people whom are responsible could care less about the damage caused and the lives they destroyed. We can't allow that to happen to our natural reefs and Hobby as well and believe that we should not support these greedy retailers and sellers who wouldn't think twice about wiping out a reef to fill their pockets. I also have very little respect for someone who takes advantage of good people by taking their free offerings not for their enjoyment but to make a buck.

DITTO​

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[Awibrandy]

The DBTC program got inundated with people looking for choice free stuff and yes now that the novelty has worn off they are selling stuff. Again you are/were dealing with trust in others not to violate the rules you set up for the DBTC frag but weasels and wolves were out there waiting to jump on things and for time enough to pass to sell things unnoticed.

Wes gave me a coral 2 years ago at the Pace swap. I watched him give other corals to other people for free too. I also couldn't believe that those same people were selling those frags for close to retail price not too long after. I lost my frag in my crash, but others made a killing off of it. There are more examples from the past and more recently that I am sure people could expand on but it would be pointless. Weasels and wolves will always be just that, weasels and wolves.

I've seen this happen over and over as well. Even 1 of my worthless DBTC frag was sold here by someone who took their tank down, while I had even asked for frags of what I had given in the dbtc last summer when mine had melted away.;( That person didn't even have the decency to give me at least 1 polyp back. That made me so very sad.
I recall when I first started in this hobby some 8 years back (not that long ago) how generous people were with not only frags, but more importantly their knowledge. Now I am not saying that there aren't generous people anymore, because there are quite a few still around. And I thank God for those, for without them I would not be where I am now.:inlove: I am not as fortunate as many here, I happen to be a stay at home mom/grandma with no personal income, nor time to research as much as some of you. So I strongly depend on you guys/gals knowledge.
As far as vendors buying and reselling at a profit I don't really have a problem with it except for those that hound the threads 24/7 with that sole purpose. I say let the seller make the decision on who they want to do business with.
Vendors taking from the freebie thread to resale, that I have a problem with. But then how do you police everything that happens on the internet or stores for that matter.

 

[AlohaTropics]

Preserving our nature's reefs should be our top concern. But we also must realize that harvesting in nature (when done properly) is not what is destroying our reefs. Ocean aquaculture facilities and controlled harvesting are very small compared to the dying off of vast portions of reef due to temperature change, pollution, and land erosion which causes sediments to flow into shallow waters blocking out light and covering our reefs. These are the main damaging occurences. For the most part, though I'm sure there are many that do not adhere to the rules, harvestors realize that if they over harvest and destroy the reef, they are destroying themselves. Its like the fishing industry, though there are many that do not follow the rules, for the most part, it is globally understood that overfishing will cause changes to our ecosystem. So much of the fishing industry is controlled and regulated same as the coral harvesting industry. I'm sure its not a perfect science, but just wanted to point out the main concerns in the destruction of our reefs in nature.

 

[Aqua Pro Builder]

Its like the fishing industry, though there are many that do not follow the rules, for the most part, it is globally understood that overfishing will cause changes to our ecosystem. So much of the fishing industry is controlled ... .

I am not sure how accurate this statement is. Members of EU ban the collection of Tuna fish and others and then to the eyes of their countrymen they know what over fishing means and they are doing the right thing for not collecting this resource in their own territories. But then, the very same countries within EU send their armadas to the third world to over harvest the very same fish they ban and bring back to their home countries. Research counts that one single industrialized fishing boat of the EU armadas, in one single trip, is hauling 10 years worth of fish that the whole island area used to collect!!!! The islanders protest to EU but is powerless as they are not part of the system.

 

[AlohaTropics]

Thats definitely a problem. There are always those that break the rules. But my point is that responsible harvesting that adhere to the rules which is why you need Cites to harvest and export, help minimize the damage to reefs through harvesting. Following Endangered Species Cites help keep the reefs building through harvesting. I'm speculating here but if one month, a transhipper cannot get the cites for a certain area or certain species, I'm betting its not that the reefs have been stripped clean but it allows time for the reefs to recover and rebuild. Wingo, you know more of this. Is this correct?

And please, I'm not saying that we should recklessly harvest corals from the wild, I'm just saying the responsible harvesting is a way to not destroy our reefs. The problems in nature and our way of life is really whats hurting our reefs more.

 

[mr_X]

none of us are helping the reefs at all by being a part of this hobby, aquaculture or not. not everyone will only buy aquacultured that has seen your tank and wants one of their own. not to mention the resources involved with all the components of this hobby...any hobby for that matter.


that said i agree with the fact that since the locals near the reefs make their living off of them, they have gone out of their way to take better care of them.

you would do more for the reefs selling your car and purchasing a bicycle than buying aquacultured corals.