Great Barrier Reef in Serious Trouble

[aquascaper82]

wow really, so chines people dont have any skills or safety training?? im confused if your in school for marine bilogy, you should know that all the reefs of the world are in serious jeopardy, an any crashes should be taken seriously and the possibilty of dumpig all the oil would be devistating...i think they should def have stricter policies on the protection of all marine life and expecially the reefs..

you'd think they have laws and regulations over there but they really don't. even when i was visiting and i saw a car accident happen right in front of me noone called the police they don't care about all the legal stuff. they just give each other some money and leave the scene. probably most people have no car insurance or anything. totally a different world.

 

[Larissa]

wow really, so chines people dont have any skills or safety training?? im confused if your in school for marine bilogy, you should know that all the reefs of the world are in serious jeopardy, an any crashes should be taken seriously and the possibilty of dumpig all the oil would be devistating...i think they should def have stricter policies on the protection of all marine life and expecially the reefs..

Marine biology? I thought jaa couldn't take any classes in anything.

 

[jaa1456]

Larissa, This was way before any of the other stuff happened, about 10 years ago. You know what happened to though? He thought he had to fart till he S@#T his pants. What I took classes in previously to my agreed contract has nothing to do with thre contract since you can't change the pass. Larissa you should really worry about yourself.

 

[Larissa]

Larissa, This was way before any of the other stuff happened, about 10 years ago. You know what happened to though? He thought he had to fart till he S@#T his pants. What I took classes in previously to my agreed contract has nothing to do with thre contract since you can't change the pass. Larissa you should really worry about yourself.

I have no idea what any of this says. I'm fairly certain that doesn't matter, though, so don't bother explaining.

 

[jaa1456]

It means I already took the classe way before I got hurt. The schooling was about 10 years ago. You know 1999-2002, While I was hurt in 2009. how is that confusing, makes sense to me. Like I said you can't change the past what happened in the past already happened. Very simple I think

 

[125reefer]

alright i know having this spill is very hard on the barrier and its devastating but there are a hell of alot more devastating to our oceans.over fishing,global warming,sewer systems,household chemicals and so on .yes i would like to see something done about these accidents but i woulkd really like to see other more dangerous situations gone.the oceans will heal itself and yes in our lifetime but it still horrible that accidents like this have to happen..our world is controlled by money and power and it will never change.

 

[JimmyR1rider]

Thank God somebody decided to put the thread:backtotop

 

[Larissa]

alright i know having this spill is very hard on the barrier and its devastating but there are a hell of alot more devastating to our oceans.over fishing,global warming,sewer systems,household chemicals and so on .yes i would like to see something done about these accidents but i woulkd really like to see other more dangerous situations gone.the oceans will heal itself and yes in our lifetime but it still horrible that accidents like this have to happen..our world is controlled by money and power and it will never change.

Thing is, you kind of need to chip away at everything. And I don't mean YOU, per se, I mean YOU the world. Or WE the world, really. There's already a movement toward natural and harmless household cleaning products and soaps, there's already a movement toward recycling and whatever else it takes to try & halt global warming, etc, etc.

This crash was just another horrific incident in a whole series of ecological problems we face. But it's something that COULD be prevented, or at least properly punished, in the short term. We need to do everything else too, but no one can argue this isn't bad just because something else may be worse.

And in this situation, a harsher penalty, especially for a second or third offense, is called for. This company will only alter its practices once it's hit in the purse hard enough. It takes shortcuts because it's cost effective. It needs to be made NOT cost effective, and they'll stop. Then it'll be one problem down, and we can keep focusing on the rest.

 

[JimmyR1rider]

Larissa in all honesty- fines out of pocket for disobeying in 1 part of the world that this company or even 2 or 3 will not change their practices ever. No matter what theyll still make enough money to pay their fines and for the cleanups and keep on trucking- and there will NEVER be penalties of closing them down so theyll just continue on their way.

Its the same in commercial business in every category- theres a builder in queens- he is a guy the city is after and have been for years. He somehow gets the permits to each new site that he builds on. Finishes quicker than the city can catch up to him at that site. When theyre fining him for the violations on that site hes already made 10 fold on the new rentals of the last place he built.

The shipping companies are probably ran and will continue to run similar to this way of operating though whatever punishments they get.


I just hope that the reef- the topic that should be being discussed here comes out ok after this

 

[Larissa]

Jimmy, I'm with you on hoping the reef comes out of this as OK as it can.

I do disagree, though, that civil penalties can't change business practices. They've been doing it for hundreds of years; the penalties just have to be harsh enough to make the point. I know people freak out based on the *false* "facts" spread about the McD's coffee case, but it comes down to this: Mc D's knew their coffee was too hot. They had multiple warnings. They didn't care because it was cost-effective for them to keep doing what they'd been doing. Someone finally got injured enough to sue, did so, and the jury whacked McD's enough that they changed their practice! It can happen. It just needs to be done right.

 

[Larissa]

And it turns out the reef is NOT ok: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article7095902.ece

 

[JimmyR1rider]

Ok am done. Started out to be great thread about how we care about what happened to the reef- that no lives of people were directly effected and nobody was immediately endangered and has now been brought to the level of McDonalds coffee. Sorry but a case involving a hot plate that keeps coffee too hot and a TRANS WORLD SHIPPING COMPANY running aground on the great barrier reef-- apples and frozen oranges. Am done with the thread because it seems to be where the lawyers gather and talk shop thread.

How about an update on the state of the cleanup? dont even know what stage its in. If done how about a tally on the damage, how about some info on the REEF? After all this is Manhattan Reefs- not Manhattan Transcontinental Shipping Lawyer Brokerage.


Since you updated it while I was typing--- am glad something about the reef was hit on again. That should have been put up instead of the point of McDonalds coffee

 

[Larissa]

Jimmy, I posted a link to the most recent article I could find on the reef. It's in the post right above your most recent one.

As for the rest, I'm not talking shop, I'm talking solution! I'm talking about how to prevent this in the future. There IS a way, and it CAN work. It's not apples & oranges, just a matter of scale. Make the companies who destroy like this hurt for it, and they won't do it again.

I don't know why you're getting so up in arms when I'm basically agreeing with you.

My only point is that it's not just about trying to regrow the reef, (which according to the article may never happen), but about preventing future incidents also. There's really only one realistic way to do that.

 

[Killerdrgn]

Jimmy, I'm with you on hoping the reef comes out of this as OK as it can.

I do disagree, though, that civil penalties can't change business practices. They've been doing it for hundreds of years; the penalties just have to be harsh enough to make the point. I know people freak out based on the *false* "facts" spread about the McD's coffee case, but it comes down to this: Mc D's knew their coffee was too hot. They had multiple warnings. They didn't care because it was cost-effective for them to keep doing what they'd been doing. Someone finally got injured enough to sue, did so, and the jury whacked McD's enough that they changed their practice! It can happen. It just needs to be done right.

Actually on the same note, if you look up the case the Judge later reduced the penalty amount to something nearly insignificant. And actually the details of the case is being taught in business classes now, as a value to good PR/customer service because all the woman was asking for originally from Mcdonalds was an apology and to pay some of the hospital bills, but the Customer service people just totally ignored her.

And now back to topic, lets just hope that the ship crushed and spread the corals in a way that put frags in better growing conditions, and away from the crown of thorns starfish.

 

[125reefer]

just like everything in life if you change practices that have been done to keep cost down you will continue to do so.if they have to do something that would cost them millions or be sued for billions that cost will be added intothe public.then an uproar from the public will be had

 

[Larissa]

I've read the case. Reduced, yes, but not "nearly insignificant."

At any rate, according to the 4/14 article, the paint from the ship may prevent corals from ever regenerating on that section of the reef.

 

[Killerdrgn]

I've read the case. Reduced, yes, but not "nearly insignificant."

At any rate, according to the 4/14 article, the paint from the ship may prevent corals from ever regenerating on that section of the reef.

After all the lawyer fees that the woman paid yeah the take home was really not that much. It did cover her bills though.

 

[Larissa]

That's why "contingency" is a good thing for plaintiffs. Attorneys don't get as much as you think they do.

 

[Killerdrgn]

That's why "contingency" is a good thing for plaintiffs. Attorneys don't get as much as you think they do.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liebeck_v._McDonald%27s_Restaurants

It went from 2.9 million to under $600,000-lawyer and "expert" fees.

Anyways, I wonder what chemical does the paint contain that prevents growth. I wonder if it was localized and could some of the corals be knocked out far enough from the paint chips to still be able to grow.

 

[KathyC]

The bottom paint on boats contains copper to keep barnacles, algae and other sea-things from growing/attaching as it tremendously slows down a vessel.


What I don't get is why Austrailia is not being far more pro-active in doing something about these ships that cut over the reef when it is clearly a common thing if you listen to the reports from the commercial vessels in the area.
Add to that, they KNEW about this one, KNEW it was leaking oil, yet it doesn't sound from that last link like they did much to stop it from getting to the shore of those islands nearby. That is disappointing.

By me if you so much as drop 2 drips of anything into the water here they slap up those yellow containment floats in a heartbeat. We has a bus leaking oil on my block a couple of weeks ago and we had the Fire Department and the Hazmat people here in less than 30 minutes to contain it from going down the sewer and the Coast Guard would have been called in immediately if they couldn't handle it by themselves.