What's Sanjay's Conclusion?

[juiceguy]

well i think the jury is still out on LEDS on a full sps tank as most ppl that have made the switch to LEDS are usually ppl who keep LPS ,softies and a couple of sps as they really stand out with LEDS.

 

[prattreef]

Lux and PAR are two completely different things, though it doesn't seem so at first. Lux is based upon the total visual brightness of a light source. PAR (which stands for Photosynthetically Active Radiation) is a measure of the intensity of light which is useful for photosynthetic purposes. (Chlorophyll only works with a few very specific wavelengths of light, and, while photosynthetic critters have a few tricks up their sleeves to broaden that band, only a limited amount of any light source is actually useful.)

Furthermore, your light source isn't the only problem. Dissolved organic compounds in your tank may absorb wavelengths of light that're most useful for photosynthesis, but have only a limited effect on the actual appearance of light in the tank.

As to what individual corals need -- there're wide ranges, and some adaptability, depending on the individual species (and sometimes individual coral.) Too little light and the coral starves, too much and it will experience photoinhibition and damage to the photosynthetic pathway, which will lead to the same thing.

TL;DR summation: Just see what fixtures and products other people are successful with over tanks of similar size as your own, follow roughly similar coral placement (while watching the actual coral for reactions,) and you should be fine.

Excellent explanation and suggestion .

 

[NYreefNoob]

t5 can and have replaced mh, unless you have a 30"+ deep tank, been running sps tanks for about 4 yr's with t5's with no growth or color problems, and hopefully next week my led light comes

 

[jaa1456]

T5 fixtures have not replaced MH are else they would not continue to sell them, When VHO came out everyone had to have them. MH will never be repalced it has been there before and along with every other type of bulb. Wait another 10 years and you will see.

 

[jaa1456]

Josh you missed my point totaly. Every thing including par readings can be found on the internet with a little patience and searching. I was just saying everything that was summed up, I have already found and read about back in december when I first started looking into LEDs. I do not go out an buy something blindly just because some one else says so or it is the hot item. Thats just ignorant if you do not do some research on your own

 

[NYreefNoob]

T5 fixtures have not replaced MH are else they would not continue to sell them, When VHO came out everyone had to have them. MH will never be repalced it has been there before and along with every other type of bulb. Wait another 10 years and you will see.

ok not replaced same as mh didnt replace pc's, but t5's work as well as mh with benifits mh doesnt offer, u choose 1 bulb for mh so thats the color u get, t5 u can ran multiple temp bulbs to make a wider color scheme and coverage, t5 doesnt leave the spotlight or shadowing effect that mh does. my 311w t5 is as bright as 500w mh to the eye anyways. 7" off the water tank 22" deep and keep cclams on the sand that are very happy, nothing will ever fully replace any type of light as there are people with different types that need different type of bulb's, also have different lighting needs and different amounts they can spend. my sole purpose of going to led's is to cut power cost, pecan2phat has been running sps tank for awhile with led as well as other's have. i am still curious as to what led sanjay has

 

[ming]

T5 fixtures have not replaced MH are else they would not continue to sell them, When VHO came out everyone had to have them. MH will never be repalced it has been there before and along with every other type of bulb. Wait another 10 years and you will see.

I wouldn't say T5 would replace any other lighting, it is just another option instead of MH. I personally have never owned a MH fixture and grew a LOT of SPS corals from 1-2" frags to full size colonies the size of a football, which is much more then MANY reefers with MH. I used only T5's.

I will eventually post up a new thread with LED results as I'm converting to LEDs this summer. My biggest reason for the conversion is the reduced heat especially in the summer, and following by reduced electricity consumption. We've already seen from several tanks that LED can and do work long term from dickens and other reefers, the question is more if you like the color of the coral as it gets used to the LED's.

My T5's would turn corals more pastel color which I actually liked in some corals and brought out colors never seen in MH, but it also does the opposite in certain other corals. Its a trade off. I would assume LED's to have a similar effect on various corals.

 

[SevTT]

I have seen these debates before. This is about 6 years ago or so. VHO will replace MH. Well no it didn't, The new T8 will replace MH um no it didn't. Then there was what a T12 I think? same results. Now T5 will replace MH nope it didn't either.

Except that it effectively has, in tanks less than 24 inches or so. As far as I can tell the main reason that people get MHs nowadays is because a: they're the cheapest thing possible, and b: they like the whole shimmer look. Well, LEDs take care of b, but frankly I expect MH lights to finally die a death once the new plasma lights get off the ground, assuming that they can be comparable in price, which may be the case.

Leds will now replace MH, we will have to wait and see. The LED fixtures are so far from where they need to be to even be consider a full replacement. I love the concept and Idea behind them, but the knowledge and materials need to be improved. I see to many high priced as well as lower priced LEDs with burnt out banks and non working lights. Who wants to pay 700 for a small fixture just to have bulbs burn out that are supposed to last for 10,000 hours. I have a set of LEDs on one light and I think there are 2 left running the rest are burnt out. 5 months old and thats what the result is? The companies response, we will send you new bulbs at 5 dollars apiece, you will have to remove the old bulbs and solder the new ones in. What???? They really need to fix the problems before letting these fixtures out.

It sounds more like the company you're dealing with is utter shite, but you can't generalize your experience with one company out to others. This also doesn't have much to do with the actual utility of LEDs as a light source for reef tanks, just the fact that some companies have really, really poor quality control and customer service.

 

[joseney21]

if you want tanks that are all sps grown out by leds just look around on the internet (even here on MR many members have sps dominant tanks running only leds, same goes for T5s).

speaking from the DIY standpoint it seems to me that even the cost of building the led fixtures, based on some of the DIY threads out there, is now comparable to buying a metal halide retro. i am still curious about the failure rate of the bulbs in the DIY fixtures... I'm taking the plunge!!!

like nyreefnoob said, T5s give you so much more choice with colors than MH and now with LEDs you get even more choice IMO, down to every couple square inches in your tank....put an XRE here, XPE there, XPG over there, run it at 350ma or the full 1500ma, run it with 4degree optics (i think they have them that narrow) or run them without optics (usually an angle greater than 85degrees), mount the fixture as high as you want (in a typical maybe even not so typical home) or mount it extremely close to the water....

options are all there.....just gotta do your research, plan it and play with it.....

btw ming, you have + reefer rating!!! thanks man (did you buy all of your parts for the led build??)

 

[SevTT]

Josh:

Great summary. You were paying attention.

Yes, I should include a slide talking about a list of cost factors to consider when making the decision.

sanjay.

I'd really like to see a comparison by cost/yr, including the amortized price of the fixture over its expected life span, cost of replacement parts, and electricity.

 

[dj ze]

i,ve been running 3 chinnese made 120 watt led panels for 7 month now on my 180 mixed reef and my sp's have been getting excelent groth more than when i was running 400 halides and much better look i prefer the led's over the halides but thats just my opinion veryone else will have there's but i feel led's can replace halides if reefers will simply accept what the future has to offer and not stuck on old tecknology

 

[jerl77]

so will leds be good for sps ?

 

[prattreef]

"good" is a problematic word. Without question you can get enough PAR with some of the LED fixtures presently available to make SPS corals grow happily. How they color up, how they look to you aesthetically etc. is an unsettled and at least partially subjective issue.

 

[ming]

btw ming, you have + reefer rating!!! thanks man (did you buy all of your parts for the led build??)

Yeah, they're already wired up and working. Building an enclosure for them, then comes ordering tank, and then building a stand and plumbing parts. Once I have everything, I'll proceed with the upgrading

 

[sanjay]

so will leds be good for sps ?

At this point its quite clear that LEDs
(1) can put out enough PAR to grow SPS, at a lower electrical consumption.
(2) Even if the output is lower than MH or T5, LEDs can put more light into the tank due to better directional control of the light
(3) On ones that have the ability to dim, various color combination can be achieved, but they still lack parts of the spectrum giving the tanks a "flat" look

What is not so clear, is
(1) what is the real long term life, light output decay, when used over a warm, humid salt environment
(2) what color the corals will develop, given the differences in spectrum
(3) can the current costs be justified - would depend on individual situations
(4) long term failure rates, ability to repair, service and warranty that will be available for these products.

sanjay.

PS. I can't stand looking at the all blue LEDs and the corals under them. It hurts my eyes, and takes my brain time to readjust to normal light.

 

[jerl77]

thank you for answering
jeremy

At this point its quite clear that LEDs
(1) can put out enough PAR to grow SPS, at a lower electrical consumption.
(2) Even if the output is lower than MH or T5, LEDs can put more light into the tank due to better directional control of the light
(3) On ones that have the ability to dim, various color combination can be achieved, but they still lack parts of the spectrum giving the tanks a "flat" look

What is not so clear, is
(1) what is the real long term life, light output decay, when used over a warm, humid salt environment
(2) what color the corals will develop, given the differences in spectrum
(3) can the current costs be justified - would depend on individual situations
(4) long term failure rates, ability to repair, service and warranty that will be available for these products.

sanjay.

PS. I can't stand looking at the all blue LEDs and the corals under them. It hurts my eyes, and takes my brain time to readjust to normal light.

 

[sanjay]

What is also quite clear that there are differences in the LED fixtures currently, that should be considered when making your decision. My data can at least provide information on the quantitative differences in light output and spread, and power consumption.

sanjay.

 

[jerl77]

what one do you think is the best?

What is also quite clear that there are differences in the LED fixtures currently, that should be considered when making your decision. My data can at least provide information on the quantitative differences in light output and spread, and power consumption.

sanjay.

 

[sanjay]

Unless you define what best means, that question is very ambiguous. To determine what "best" is you need to have well defined criteria.


Its almost like asking what is the best car out there. You have to find the "best" one that fits your needs, your budget, etc. So the criteria for best has to be defined, and may be different for different people. If everyone had the same criteria we would all be driving the same car.

sanjay.

 

[NYreefNoob]

and which one's are you using sanjay ?