Changing rodi filters
- Thread starter NL146
- Start date
- Location
- Flushing, NY
Five hours is excessive. Running it for a minute each time you turn on would be enough (The first minute seems to have the highest TDS)
- Location
- Flushing, NY
I actually don't use DI, but for my pre-filters, yes, a minute to flush. I have an inline TDS meter and after a minute, its pretty much at or about to hit zero, and stays at zero while on
- Location
- FREEPORT,LONG ISLAND
Wow i have never let them run first,i just changed and made water?
- Location
- Far Rockaway
I change my filter not to long ago and had 0 TSD when changed never let it run . But when i changed my di resin thats a diffrent story tsd was jumping all over the place. Ran it for 2m and was back to 0 tsd .
Nigel- you are remembering what you heard about when you change the membrane of a rodi unit (or a new unit).
You want to wait until the TDS is zero before use anytime.
Usually the water made during the first few minutes of each start up should be discarded as it is not at zero TDS.
You want to wait until the TDS is zero before use anytime.
Usually the water made during the first few minutes of each start up should be discarded as it is not at zero TDS.
- Location
- FREEPORT,LONG ISLAND
I heard running only for membrane but never anything else?
Everytime my tank need top off it starts at 4 tsd then goes to zero in 1 minute, not sure how it work but never ever had a problem
read this on RC and they say its ok
Everytime my tank need top off it starts at 4 tsd then goes to zero in 1 minute, not sure how it work but never ever had a problem
read this on RC and they say its ok
- Location
- Long Island
how often do you guys change your filters
Buckeye Field Supply
Sponsor
- Location
- On the Internet
A good rule of thumb is to replace your sediment filter and carbon block after six months. A more precise way to maximize the useable life of these two filters is to use a pressure gauge to identify when pressure reaching the membrane starts to decline. This is your indication one or both of the filters is beginning to clog.
Also be cognizant of the chlorine capacity of the carbon block. A good 0.5 micron carbon block for example will remove 99% of chlorine from 20,000 gallons of tap water presented at 1 gpm. Some original equipment suppliers commonly provide carbon cartridges rated at 2,000 to 6,000 gallons.
Regarding your RO membrane and DI resin, use your TDS meter to measure, record, and track the TDS (expressed in parts per million) in three places:
1. Tap water
2. After the RO but before the DI
3. After the DI.
The TDS in your tap water will likely range from about 50 ppm to upwards of 1000 parts per million (ppm). Common readings are 100 to 400 ppm. So for sake of discussion, let's say your tap water reads 400 ppm. That means that for every million parts of water, you have 400 parts of dissolved solids. How do we go about getting that TDS reading down to somewhere near zero?
If you do some experimenting with your TDS meter, you'll note that your sediment filter and carbon block filter (collectively called “prefilters”) do very little to remove dissolved solids. So with your tap water at 400 ppm, you can measure the water at the “in” port on your RO housing and you'll see it is still approximately 400 ppm.
The RO membrane is really the workhorse of the system. It removes most of the TDS, some membranes to a greater extent than others. For instance, 100 gpd Filmtec membranes have a rejection rate of 90% (i.e., they reject 90% of the dissolved solids in feed water). So the purified water coming from your 100 gpd membrane would be about 40 ppm (a 90% reduction). Filmtec 75 gpd (and below) membranes produce less purified water (aka “permeate”), but have a higher rejection rate (96 to 98%). The life span of a RO membrane is dependant upon how much water you run through it, and how dirty the water is. Membranes can function well for a year, two years, or more. To test the membrane, measure the total dissolved solids (TDS) in the water coming in to the membrane, and in the purified water (permeate) produced by the membrane. Compare that to the membrane’s advertised rejection rate, and to the same reading you recorded when the membrane was new. Membranes also commonly produce less water as their function declines.
After the RO membrane, water will flow to your DI housing. DI resin in good condition will reduce the 40 ppm water down to 0 or 1 ppm. When the DI output starts creeping up from 0 or 1 ppm, you know that your resin needs to be replaced. Sometimes people complain that their DI resin didn't last very long. Often the culprit is a malfunctioning RO membrane sending the DI resin “dirty” water. This will exhaust the resin quicker than would otherwise have been the case. Sometimes the problem is poor quality resin – remember that all resins are not created equal!
Russ
Also be cognizant of the chlorine capacity of the carbon block. A good 0.5 micron carbon block for example will remove 99% of chlorine from 20,000 gallons of tap water presented at 1 gpm. Some original equipment suppliers commonly provide carbon cartridges rated at 2,000 to 6,000 gallons.
Regarding your RO membrane and DI resin, use your TDS meter to measure, record, and track the TDS (expressed in parts per million) in three places:
1. Tap water
2. After the RO but before the DI
3. After the DI.
The TDS in your tap water will likely range from about 50 ppm to upwards of 1000 parts per million (ppm). Common readings are 100 to 400 ppm. So for sake of discussion, let's say your tap water reads 400 ppm. That means that for every million parts of water, you have 400 parts of dissolved solids. How do we go about getting that TDS reading down to somewhere near zero?
If you do some experimenting with your TDS meter, you'll note that your sediment filter and carbon block filter (collectively called “prefilters”) do very little to remove dissolved solids. So with your tap water at 400 ppm, you can measure the water at the “in” port on your RO housing and you'll see it is still approximately 400 ppm.
The RO membrane is really the workhorse of the system. It removes most of the TDS, some membranes to a greater extent than others. For instance, 100 gpd Filmtec membranes have a rejection rate of 90% (i.e., they reject 90% of the dissolved solids in feed water). So the purified water coming from your 100 gpd membrane would be about 40 ppm (a 90% reduction). Filmtec 75 gpd (and below) membranes produce less purified water (aka “permeate”), but have a higher rejection rate (96 to 98%). The life span of a RO membrane is dependant upon how much water you run through it, and how dirty the water is. Membranes can function well for a year, two years, or more. To test the membrane, measure the total dissolved solids (TDS) in the water coming in to the membrane, and in the purified water (permeate) produced by the membrane. Compare that to the membrane’s advertised rejection rate, and to the same reading you recorded when the membrane was new. Membranes also commonly produce less water as their function declines.
After the RO membrane, water will flow to your DI housing. DI resin in good condition will reduce the 40 ppm water down to 0 or 1 ppm. When the DI output starts creeping up from 0 or 1 ppm, you know that your resin needs to be replaced. Sometimes people complain that their DI resin didn't last very long. Often the culprit is a malfunctioning RO membrane sending the DI resin “dirty” water. This will exhaust the resin quicker than would otherwise have been the case. Sometimes the problem is poor quality resin – remember that all resins are not created equal!
Russ
- Location
- Wallingford, CT
Hi Russ,
Wanted to pick your mind and expertise.
What are your opinions on dual membranes? Do they really cut down the waste water to 1:1 or 1:1.5 ratio?
Thanks.
Wanted to pick your mind and expertise.
What are your opinions on dual membranes? Do they really cut down the waste water to 1:1 or 1:1.5 ratio?
Thanks.
Buckeye Field Supply
Sponsor
- Location
- On the Internet
We get this question a lot - I think we need to add this to our FAQ list: http://buckeyefieldsupply.com/FAQ.asp
We feel it is more than a little misleading to tell folks they can cut down on waste water by adding a second membrane. Here's why.
First - remember that what folks call "waste water" really would be better thought of as "flush water" in that this water serves the important purpose of internally flushing the surface of the semipermeable membrane to keep the membrane from fouling/scaling.
When you configure a system with two membranes in series (the waste from the first membrane going to the "in" port on the second membrane), for this discussion let's say it's two 75 gpd membranes, the system behaves like you have a single long (75 gpd x 2) 150 gpd membrane.
Now - if you use a proper flow restrictor, that is, one for a 150 gpd membrane, you'll have about a 4:1 waste to product ratio. Sound familiar, right?
If however you don't change the flow restrictor - meaning you keep using the same restrictor you were using when you just had one 75 gpd membrane, then you'll see a waste to product ratio much lower than 4:1. But remember that the recommendation for a ~4:1 ratio comes from the membrane manufacturer. They are telling you that you need about a 4:1 ratio to keep the membrane flushed and keep the membrane from fouling or building up scale. Run the system with a lower ratio and you will foul/scale the membrane(s) quicker than would have otherwise been the case.
Instead of adding a second membrane to lower that ratio, you could have just changed out your flow restrictor ($4) instead. A much less expensive approach to get you to the same endpoint in terms of saving on waste water.
Now, to confuse things just a bit. Filmtec specs call for the 4 to 1 ratio on the basis of assumptions about the water that will be supplied to the membrane. If you have very soft water you MAY be able to get a decent service life from the membrane running at a ratio lower than 4 to 1 (e.g., 3 to 1). Remember that the waste water from the first membrane is about 25% harder than your tap water.
Bottomline: If what you are after is reduced waste water, experiment with a different flow restrictor for $4 instead of messing around with a second membrane plumbed in series.
As a side note, you can also lower the ratio by increasing the pressure delivered to the membrane (with a booster pump), because flow restrictors are sized assuming you are providing factory spec conditions (50 psi and 77 degrees for Filmtec membranes). Increase the pressure and you'll drive more water through the membrane and viola - less waste water. But as I mentioned above, if you do this (just like over-restricting a membrane) - the lower the waste to product ratio, the shorter the lifespan on the membrane.
Makes sense?
Russ
We feel it is more than a little misleading to tell folks they can cut down on waste water by adding a second membrane. Here's why.
First - remember that what folks call "waste water" really would be better thought of as "flush water" in that this water serves the important purpose of internally flushing the surface of the semipermeable membrane to keep the membrane from fouling/scaling.
When you configure a system with two membranes in series (the waste from the first membrane going to the "in" port on the second membrane), for this discussion let's say it's two 75 gpd membranes, the system behaves like you have a single long (75 gpd x 2) 150 gpd membrane.
Now - if you use a proper flow restrictor, that is, one for a 150 gpd membrane, you'll have about a 4:1 waste to product ratio. Sound familiar, right?
If however you don't change the flow restrictor - meaning you keep using the same restrictor you were using when you just had one 75 gpd membrane, then you'll see a waste to product ratio much lower than 4:1. But remember that the recommendation for a ~4:1 ratio comes from the membrane manufacturer. They are telling you that you need about a 4:1 ratio to keep the membrane flushed and keep the membrane from fouling or building up scale. Run the system with a lower ratio and you will foul/scale the membrane(s) quicker than would have otherwise been the case.
Instead of adding a second membrane to lower that ratio, you could have just changed out your flow restrictor ($4) instead. A much less expensive approach to get you to the same endpoint in terms of saving on waste water.
Now, to confuse things just a bit. Filmtec specs call for the 4 to 1 ratio on the basis of assumptions about the water that will be supplied to the membrane. If you have very soft water you MAY be able to get a decent service life from the membrane running at a ratio lower than 4 to 1 (e.g., 3 to 1). Remember that the waste water from the first membrane is about 25% harder than your tap water.
Bottomline: If what you are after is reduced waste water, experiment with a different flow restrictor for $4 instead of messing around with a second membrane plumbed in series.
As a side note, you can also lower the ratio by increasing the pressure delivered to the membrane (with a booster pump), because flow restrictors are sized assuming you are providing factory spec conditions (50 psi and 77 degrees for Filmtec membranes). Increase the pressure and you'll drive more water through the membrane and viola - less waste water. But as I mentioned above, if you do this (just like over-restricting a membrane) - the lower the waste to product ratio, the shorter the lifespan on the membrane.
Makes sense?
Russ
- Location
- Wallingford, CT
Thank you Russ, extremely informative 
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