becoming a importer?i have a list of indonesian contacts&amp

[Phillyboy]

LOL. I never said anything of the sort.

I'm not breaking any laws just because my operation is home-based. I file with the state too. The good part is, it's not my livelyhood so i don't have to create inflated prices to break even, and there's no pressure to sell. My focus is on the enjoyment i get from learning about the animals and cultivating them. this allows me to spread the love around and trade(or whatever) with other hobbyists. :lol: :lol:

 

[flameangel1]

whoa !!
Inflated prices ???
I sell my frags (2 to 3 inch size) for $5.99 and my 8 inch frags for $19.95 !!!! I don't call that "inflated ".

If I BUY a coral, I MUST recoup the cost for that coral .
I doubt you would pay $35.00 for a coral, additional $8.00 for the shipping etc on that coral, take care of it for a month and then sell it for less than
$50.00.
Well, maybe you would, but I can not.

 

[Phillyboy]

That's not too bad, depending on the colony. And your frag prices are great. You'd get my business. You need to come teach some of our retailors a lesson or two.

I suspect it's also the source of corals that affects the retail price.. I know i can get amazing acro colonies at some stores for $30 and at another store that same colony would be $65 at least. So that means either the retailor is overinflating, or he's paying too much wholesale to begin with?

 

[JennM]

I'm not breaking any laws just because my operation is home-based. I file with the state too. The good part is, it's not my livelyhood so i don't have to create inflated prices to break even, and there's no pressure to sell. My focus is on the enjoyment i get from learning about the animals and cultivating them. this allows me to spread the love around and trade(or whatever) with other hobbyists. :lol: :lol:

OH? Your home is zoned commercial, and it's legal to run an aquaculture facility or retail pet store there? You're collecting sales tax even on items BARTERED? (sorry but tax is payable on that too -- I participate in barter also). Anybody who doesn't pay tax has a resale number on file with you? All cash transactions are duly recorded and tax remitted? Absolutely no "bending" of rules? Do you need an animal protection licence in your state and do you have one, and are you inspected regularly? If you can honestly answer yes to all of those questions, then my hat is off to you.

I don't doubt the enjoyment factor -- I'm a longtime hobbyist and understand the passion that comes with this hobby, and I'm as passionate as the next reefer.

If you do file, you're in the MINORITY, but it's an advantage because then you get to write off many of your home expenses. I can't say as I blame you there, it makes economic sense.

As for "creating inflated prices"..........I can feel that anurism coming -- do you QUESTION the wholesale cost of the steak you eat at supper? How much does the restaurant make when you dine out? Do you question the wholesale cost of gasoline, of milk or bread, of your clothing? What about your furniture, the cost of your house, or any other commoditity you pay for? In general, NO! That's retail -- markups don't exist only in the pet trade, but you have a business degree so you know this -- why act as if we're the only ones on the planet that try to pay the bills with customers' money? Supply and demand dictate prices, so what's wrong with ANY store charging what the market will support? Just because *you* think it's inflated, makes it so?

Those so-called inflated prices pay for the STOREFRONT that probably helped you get into the hobby in the first place. I'm sure that very few people who wanted to get into the hobby, found an online store and based solely on the pictures or mpegs, decided to buy a tank, got the whole thing online or out of somebody's garage....Sure some bought second-hand setups (myself included) but I'd say that the overwhelming majority of hobbyists got their start by frequenting an LFS and the majority STILL DO. I have clients who have the option of shopping online but would rather support their LFS if the difference is just a few dollars (who can blame them for shopping online when the price is substantially less), so I'll still be here down the road. Those customers are my GEMS and they are the first ones to get email or a phone call when I get something special in. They also get my best price -- I still have to make a margin but I would rather keep them happy and coming back by taking less markup (not profit, MARKUP), and they get a deal and know I appreciate their business. Loyalty is very important to me, and it doesn't go unrewarded.

I have no problem with hobbyists propping -- I trade store credit for Xenia, star polyps, other corals and even baby Banggai Cardinals REGULARLY. I think it's awesome that the hobby has prospered to the point where "average" hobbyists are having specimens reproduce, and they can trade in their surplus to offset the costs of upkeep. I also take in fish that have outgrown peoples' tanks and I've not been in business long enough to have SOLD one of those fish. You can't send a big fish back to e-tailer, can you? Still, it's a 2-way street. If people think they can just come in and unload their cast-offs and not give back in the way of purchases, I'd be under in a heartbeat.

I can't beat Internet prices, or choices, but I can beat them on service, and I do. I'll get to know your name and your tank, you aren't just a credit card number, and that is something that is going out of fashion. Can e-tailer come over and assess a problem, or do a maintenance on your tank while you're on vacation, or can you leave e-tailer's phone number with your neighbour who is watching your system for a weekend? SERVICE. It's worth a few extra dollars to most.

It is intriguing the hate that some hobbyists appear to have for the retailer -- it's unique to a small group from what I've seen, they frequent these forums, but aren't the hobbyist population at large (majority of hobbyists don't participate in these boards), but it's like they begrudge us for existing, revile us if we actually survive and take home a paycheck, yet our existance helps perpetuate the hobby, whether you like it or not. I guess LFS are useful the day your pump fails and you need another one faster than waiting for overnight delivery, or so you can ask a hundred questions and find out all about a product from a sales clerk, see them demonstrate it, or see it in use on a display tank, then go home and order it online.

I know what you might be thinking -- Bitter much? NO -- because like I stated above, that resentful group of hobbyists who despise the retailer and all he stands for, are a tiny minority.

Jenn

 

[flameangel1]

Phillyboy,
The retail price depends on the wholesale price-the shipping cost-the rent cost for the building etc.
I own the building, keep the prices as low as possible by propagateing enough to cover that cost and most important,
I lowered my standard of living to the BARE MININIUM !!!

Most retailers would not and SHOULD not do the last part of the above.

You do not have those cost factors , so your price should be lower than mine or zero.
I need to cover the cost though.

 

[flameangel1]

Jenn,,
You go girl !!!!
Tell it like it is !!!!!!!!

(I wanted to say that too but didnt have the nerve. )

 

[Phillyboy]

:roll:

 

[JennM]

LOL I've got nerve -- lots of it.

Judy, I couldn't even beat your prices Glad you aren't down the street from me

I've posted a similar rant before about retail versus etail, I think it made the MASNA Newsletter a few months back! :roll:

Call it what you will, ranting, raving, whatever -- but this is MY business --I'm passionate about and I'm as entitled to that as any hobbyist-come-coral farmer.

Philly -- prices DO vary. If you want stock from ethical collectors and wholesalers (fish in particular), you have to pay more. It's much more economically beneficial to dump cyanide in the water to catch 10 fish, than to pick one and chase it with a net -- but if you want quality, you pay more.

The Bitterness of Poor Quality Lasts Long After the Cheap Price is Forgotten.

Jenn

 

[SPC]

Well said Jenn, I hope Philly can understand that with his business degree and all :wink: .
Steve

 

[JennM]

I'm running the store. I get to take a break once in a while -- the boss doesn't mind :roll: Much of my traffic comes in late in the day/early evening, and I do my paperwork during the day.

Fair enough about the sales tax but what about the animal protection bit? Unless your state doesn't require that either, pet retailers, breeders and kennels need a licence and are subject to inspection to be "legal".

Philly -- I don't expect you to see things from my POV. For whatever reason you've got your reasons that I won't understand either.

Jenn

 

[Phillyboy]

ok...finally got through that post:
Speaking of minorities...you are a minority Jenn. We need more retailors like you.

 

[JennM]

Thank you for the compliment (I think...)

I'll stand beside you and agree that we need MORE retailer participation in forums like this. Sadly this thread is the most active one in a while, in a forum set up FOR the industry. I've been in stores that made my blood pressure rise (sense a theme here?) and I've refused to support them for many reasons, but when I'd find a good one, they'd get my business.

I've "not" sold a lot of things to a lot of people for a variety of reasons but that usually has them come back because they appreciate the honesty. One can have integrity in this business, but it comes at a price. I don't expect to get rich from this business (though that would be nice LOL) but I do expect the shop to pay its own bills and afford me the luxury of doing what I love.

Jenn

 

[Phillyboy]

Jenn,
take some deep breaths.. want you to know you have my complete respect and admiration. You too Judy. You're both obvious assets to the industry and the oceans.

I've seen your posts all over, and was thrilled for you when you opened your store. Love your perspective and like i said there needs to be more store owners like you. Most of em are probably reading this right now(hi guys!).

Like i said you're a minority... in my experience. Keep up the good work and good luck!
BTW - you got me on the animal protection issue...what do i need to know?

PS - my favorite quote:
"Make no mistake that a small group of concerned citizens can change the world, for certainly it is the only thing that ever has.: - M.Meade

 

[JennM]

Thanks Makes slow sales days a bit easier...LOL

Unfortunately, a good portion of the LFS owners I'm aquainted with do not participate in any way (present company notwithstanding). I wish they did, or we wouldn't hear so many instances of people being sold Skilters and SeaClones and Undergravel Filters with marine systems...

It can be hard to stay current and if one's learning stopped the day the doors opened....

That's why I hang out on these boards when I'm not scrubbing aglae or serving a customer.

Jenn

 

[flameangel1]

- You don't need commercial zoning to opereate home-based businesses.

Wow !!
Here in Pa we do, even though I started my business 5 miles out on a dirt road in the mountains !!
I am now out in the Amish cornfield country and still need it.
(my customers are used to driving 1/2 to 4 hours one way to come here )

 

[Anonymous]

As for "creating inflated prices"..........I can feel that anurism coming -- do you QUESTION the wholesale cost of the steak you eat at supper? How much does the restaurant make when you dine out? Do you question the wholesale cost of gasoline, of milk or bread, of your clothing? What about your furniture, the cost of your house, or any other commoditity you pay for? In general, NO! That's retail -- markups don't exist only in the pet trade, but you have a business degree so you know this -- why act as if we're the only ones on the planet that try to pay the bills with customers' money? Supply and demand dictate prices, so what's wrong with ANY store charging what the market will support? Just because *you* think it's inflated, makes it so?

Man this is so true. I've had customers look at me stoned faced and ask me what I am making on each thing I sell. As if they would answer me when I asked them how much they make a year. Then if you don't answer they have a fit! WTF kinda crap is that? Guess what superman, get out. I don't have time for that stuff nor do I stand for it.

Now, I wonder why I'm not being notified when all the fireworks are going on. Strange indeed.

Later folks.

 

[Anonymous]

Same here, no need for commercial zoning for a home based business but there are guidelines as with everything else. Also don't believe you need to be inspected unless you keep dogs. Cats no, but dogs yes. I think anyway.

My state knows exactly what I am up to and only expect me to pay my tax.

 

[JennM]

Interesting differences from state to state. I have 4 pages of report from a Dept of Agriculture inspector who checked my premesis and accepted my $100 fee for an animal protection licence (it will be more next year if I exceed $10K in livestock sales), which may be revoked (and my store shut down) if I'm in violation of their standards. I can be inspected at any time and had to show proof of clean and humane conditions, shelter, clean water, heat, light, treatment for illness etc. The inspector was actually a FW hobbyist too, which surprised me since I've seen inspectors that know cattle and cats and dogs but squat about fish. This guy knew his stuff, and checked out my filtration, quarantine, etc., and was very thorough. I'm glad of that, it keeps some of the scary places on their toes. There's a general pet store near here that has been in violation many times and was almost shut down til they cleaned up their act.

Jenn

 

[dizzy]

I going to tell you what a wholesaler told me years ago when I was just beginning my business. He said if your getting into this business because you like animals you are getting into it for the wrong reason. He said the reason you should be going into business is to make money. The long and the short of it is that he was right.

Another lesson I learned is that you never ever want to try and be the cheapest. The cheapest store will attract the least loyal customer base. The cheapskates are the easiest to draw, but quick to leave. Try to have the cleanest store, the most knowledgable staff, the healthiest livestock, and best variety. I was always forced to be reasonably priced because I was in smaller cities, but I always admired the big city stores who got the highest markup. Now that's good retailing.

Now chew on this. The discount marine and discount on-line stores are probably the least eco-friendly of the lot. They have to sell three times as many animals as the store with the high markup, to make the same profit. It is both ironic and hypocritical that the reefers who may consider themselves conservationists, choose to spend their money with the stores who are the least conservative.

 

[JennM]

Another lesson I learned is that you never ever want to try and be the cheapest. The cheapest store will attract the least loyal customer base. The cheapskates are the easiest to draw, but quick to leave. Try to have the cleanest store, the most knowledgable staff, the healthiest livestock, and best variety. I was always forced to be reasonably priced because I was in smaller cities, but I always admired the big city stores who got the highest markup. Now that's good retailing.

Now chew on this. The discount marine and discount on-line stores are probably the least eco-friendly of the lot. They have to sell three times as many animals as the store with the high markup, to make the same profit. It is both ironic and hypocritical that the reefers who may consider themselves conservationists, choose to spend their money with the stores who are the least conservative.

Wow have you got that right!

I am not the cheapest (somebody else has made that their mission) but my shop is clean, I'm fairly knowledgable, and I try to buy the most eco-friendly stuff I can, aquacultured when I can and ethically collected for the rest.

You're right about the bargain hunters -- they go where the wind blows.

Jenn