Proactive agenda for making it happen

[Kalkbreath]

SO...! Steve is in Manila!.............why is it I have this image of Steve...........sitting in a chair, hands tied behind his back.....and a squeeze bottle of juice being held to his head ................being told what to say and what NOT to say? {perhaps this might be why he is not at "LIBERTY" to say more at this time?}
_________________
Anger Management Forum

 

[mkirda]

SO...! Steve is in Manila!.............why is it I have this image of Steve...........sitting in a chair, hands tied behind his back.....and a squeeze bottle of juice being held to his head ................being told what to say and what NOT to say? {perhaps this might be why he is not at "LIBERTY" to say more at this time?}

Kalkbreath,

Humorous image. Off-base, but humorous.

MAC, AMDA, MASNA and CORL met over the past couple of weeks to resolve certain issues. That Steve is not at liberty to discuss those (yet) should not be read into too much. I fully suspect that all orgs involved decided to let MAC do the talking first. More will come out soon thereafter.

I'm looking forward to talking with John Brandt on Saturday myself.

Regards.
Mike Kirda

 

[naesco]

MAC, AMDA, CORL and MASNA met?
Excellent!
Expect good news.

 

[mkirda]

Expect good news.

Oh, I expect some big, happy pronouncement soon.

I'm not sure sure yet whether the words will be followed up with credible action or not. The actions are what I am waiting for.

Regards.
Mike Kirda

 

[clarionreef]

Hello People,
Now more than ever, the first two postings of this thread need to be restated. Training is accepted by all parties and will go forth again.
There exists a severe lack of net caught fish supply in many critical areas of the Philippines. The history of net training here has pretty much been restricted to safe, easier areas to reach. The fish supply currently flowing from these areas tend to be rather ordinary species and in excessive quantity. Firefish, barred gobies, scissortail gobies, clowns, assorted butterflies, chelmons and green mandarins comprise the constant majority of these fish supplies. The lack...ie. glaring lack of the critical, top end, cherry species forces dealers to go elsewhere , soiling their inventory with cyanide fish and diluting the achievement of dealing in some clean fish.

Since everyone wants these better fishes, there has been a tendency to turn a blind eye to how they were aquired. This has been the bone of contention and the sticking point for many reformers who want the full netcaught supply so they can be fully honest in presenting their inventories as netcaught.
Training needs to focus on the Eastern side of the country and in Mindinao to add to the list of common fishes now under production. More desireable species can all be collected by nets and can all become standard in exporters inventories if training pushes thru there. From events of the past week or so, it appears that it will.
Clown triggers, blue tangs and Blueface angels need to become netcaught and available to give credibility to the reform movement. Since they are readily available from cyanide sources, many dealers have felt no lack and therefore no need to pressure for training to secure them. Many certified fishes are such 'run of the mill' species that they never became much of a big deal, despite a number of net trainings during the past 20 years.
The pro-active agenda defined a month ago may a month old for purposes of chat but its the current focus of negotiation.
I'm not at liberty to say more at this time.
Steve Robinson
AMDA president in Manila

 

[Piero]

Makes me wonder what other threads are worth revisiting too. And whether there's some cumulative perspective that can be gained by reviewing the re-occurring issues.
_________________
the us recession

 

[clarionreef]

Yes,
Viewing things in perspective helps understand them a lot better then knee jerk reactions taken out of current, immediate context.
Reform energy comes in cycles. Probably pegged to economic factors, currents and water temps.
Right now, the cycle is in ebb tide...
Steve

 

[naesco]

Yes,
Viewing things in perspective helps understand them a lot better then knee jerk reactions taken out of current, immediate context.
Reform energy comes in cycles. Probably pegged to economic factors, currents and water temps.
Right now, the cycle is in ebb tide...
Steve

Thanks for bringing up this old thread but sadly nothing has been accomplished.

1. The cyanide trade continues.
2. Although a couple of people have been convicted of harvesting mushrooms not one person has been charged with dealing with cyanide abroad or in the US.
3. We are still fighting over training, how it should be done and what nets to use.
4. Fishers who risk their lives for industry are paid pennies for their catch.
5. Millions have been spent but with what results?

That is not to say that there have been individuals who have done their best at reeform and they need to be recognized and applauded.
But we, those who are concerned and wanted change, have failed miserably.

Wayne Ryan

 

[Anonymous]

Yes,
Viewing things in perspective helps understand them a lot better then knee jerk reactions taken out of current, immediate context.
Reform energy comes in cycles. Probably pegged to economic factors, currents and water temps.
Right now, the cycle is in ebb tide...
Steve

Thanks for bringing up this old thread but sadly nothing has been accomplished.

1. The cyanide trade continues.
2. Although a couple of people have been convicted of harvesting mushrooms not one person has been charged with dealing with cyanide abroad or in the US.
3. We are still fighting over training, how it should be done and what nets to use.
4. Fishers who risk their lives for industry are paid pennies for their catch.
5. Millions have been spent but with what results?

That is not to say that there have been individuals who have done their best at reeform and they need to be recognized and applauded.
But we, those who are concerned and wanted change, have failed miserably.

Wayne Ryan

:lol: :lol: :?

how dare you use the term 'we'

 

[Tropic]

8O I have to actually agree with Vitz on this one.

Seriously Wayne, there is no "WE". There is "YOU" and then there is "US"


doesnt take much to become one of us, you just have to be in the trade and have a little sense in your head.

 

[naesco]

8O I have to actually agree with Vitz on this one.

Seriously Wayne, there is no "WE". There is "YOU" and then there is "US"


doesnt take much to become one of us, you just have to be in the trade and have a little sense in your head.

I sorry I should have defined 'we'
We are those concerned about the use of cyanide in the reefs and the destruction it causes to the reefs and the critters that live therein. Those that feel that the fishers should be fairly treated. 'We' feel that sustainability is vital to the survival of the reefs and proper training and shipping is of utmost importance.

You are right. You arn't 'we' you are 'you': those who don't give a damn as long as there is a contant supply of cheap fish and coral at any cost.

 

[Anonymous]

8O I have to actually agree with Vitz on this one.

Seriously Wayne, there is no "WE". There is "YOU" and then there is "US"


doesnt take much to become one of us, you just have to be in the trade and have a little sense in your head.

I sorry I should have defined 'we'
We are those concerned about the use of cyanide in the reefs and the destruction it causes to the reefs and the critters that live therein. Those that feel that the fishers should be fairly treated. 'We' feel that sustainability is vital to the survival of the reefs and proper training and shipping is of utmost importance.

You are right. You arn't 'we' you are 'you': those who don't give a damn as long as there is a contant supply of cheap fish and coral at any cost.

wayne

how dare you presume to know either what i care about, my moral stance, or practices re: mitigating the damage done by OUR (read, not your) trade

you have NO idea what you're talking about, as usual-i help save more livestock from an untimely demise in ONE DAY than you will in any given year

what have YOU done to help mitigate the damage caused by YOUR involvement in the hobby ?

help save any fish or coral lately ?

i mean honestly, other than toot your horn with your incessant attempts to force your way into the impression of actually being involved in something connected with ANY of these issues, and making yourself look like a fool with endless announcement announcements :lol: WHAT HAVE YOU ACTUALLY DONE ?

:roll:

 

[Anonymous]

8O I have to actually agree with Vitz on this one.

Seriously Wayne, there is no "WE". There is "YOU" and then there is "US"


doesnt take much to become one of us, you just have to be in the trade and have a little sense in your head.

I sorry I should have defined 'we'
We are those concerned about the use of cyanide in the reefs and the destruction it causes to the reefs and the critters that live therein. Those that feel that the fishers should be fairly treated. 'We' feel that sustainability is vital to the survival of the reefs and proper training and shipping is of utmost importance.

You are right. You arn't 'we' you are 'you': those who don't give a damn as long as there is a contant supply of cheap fish and coral at any cost.

wayne

how dare you presume to know either what i care about, my moral stance, or practices re: mitigating the damage done by OUR (read, not your) trade

you have NO idea what you're talking about, as usual-i help save more livestock from an untimely demise in ONE DAY than you will in any given year

what have YOU done to help mitigate the damage caused by YOUR involvement in the hobby ?

help save any fish or coral lately ?

i mean honestly, other than toot your horn with your incessant attempts to force your way into the impression of actually being involved in something connected with ANY of these issues, and making yourself look like a fool with endless announcement announcements :lol: WHAT HAVE YOU ACTUALLY DONE ?

:roll:

The way he is going to help is coming in his big announcement....ohhh wait that date came and passed. :roll:

 

[Piero]

regardless of histories, etc., divisive dialogue only serves to benefit the speaker's ego. We should all try and show professional and emotional restraint when making a point. Otherwise it doesn't matter how valid your point is, it's lost on an impulsive choice of words and the negative impressions people take from your lack of professional restraint.
_________________
grand daddy purple marijuana

 

[PeterIMA]

Vitz, Wayne has as much right to post on this forum as you or anyone else irrespective of whether they are in the trade or not. Furthermore, when controls are imposed on cyanide fishing, the people doing it will not be part of the trade. Keep that in mind, please.

Peter Rubec

 

[Anonymous]

i have no problem with a non industry type posting here.

i DO have a problem with trolls

 

[Anonymous]

Vitz, Wayne has as much right to post on this forum as you or anyone else irrespective of whether they are in the trade or not. Furthermore, when controls are imposed on cyanide fishing, the people doing it will not be part of the trade. Keep that in mind, please.

Peter Rubec

doubtful that will EVER happen-at least, not in our lifetimes

 

[naesco]

i have no problem with a non industry type posting here.

i DO have a problem with trolls

Troll! I don't think that is quite fair,eh.
I have been a member of this forum welll before you were.

Wayne Ryan

 

[Anonymous]

being a member and trolling have nothing to do with each other-nor does how long ago you've registered on an internet bulletin board about reefkeeping have any relevance to or indication of what you actually know about the subject

wanna try again? :lol:

face it wayne-every regular reader of this forum knows you for what you are, and your m.o. for CRYING out for attention you so richly do not deserve for any and all things conservation oriented re: the MO industry

and once again-how dare you even insinuate that i belong in the cadre of evil people that are pro the use of cyanide

you are an ignoramus on my life, accomplishments, and work-you are an ignoramus on the trade and how it works, and you are a relative ignoramus on cyanide's users and pushers

only thing left for you to be, given the vociferous clamoring of your announcement announcements, and cloaked insulting, is a troll :idea:

 

[Anonymous]

regardless of histories, etc., divisive dialogue only serves to benefit the speaker's ego. We should all try and show professional and emotional restraint when making a point. Otherwise it doesn't matter how valid your point is, it's lost on an impulsive choice of words and the negative impressions people take from your lack of professional restraint.

Excellent post and I fully agree

I do agree with Vitz's definition of a troll as well