More MAC

[Ad van Tage]

The JOSEF STEIGER letter written one year ago [ January 07. 2003 ] is at:
http://www.reefsource.com/Industry%20Is ... teiger.htm

.................................

When reading the TIM TESSIER answer, please remember/review what it says at Seacare's website...

http://seacare.org/Merchant2/graphics/0 ... SCFAQ.html :

Do you sell Cyanide caught fish?
We exclusively carry Cyanide Free fish from the Solomon Islands, Marshall Islands, Vanuatu, Hawaii, Sri Lanka, Maldives, Brazil and Caribbean.
Our Philippine supplier has their fish randomly tested by the Philippine Bureau of Fisheries and Aquatic Resources for the presence of Cyanide***.
We DO NOT import fish from Indonesia because Cyanide use there is rampant.
Yes, the fish maybe cheaper but when you have to buy them 3 or 4 times to get one that lives, the final cost to you and the reef is much greater.
It is a documented fact that 95% of Cyanide caught fish perish before they reach your aquarium.
How many more then slowly waste away and die in the next 3 to 6 weeks?
It is very sad that people still sell Cyanide caught fish due to business reasons.
If the Governments ban the import of wild caught corals and fish we have the cyanide stores and our own apathy to blame!

*** Their weblink to http://www.imamarinelife.org/cdt.htm does not work.
It is not available. Not only that, a CDT test by BFAR is not either , I believe... 8O 8O 8O

Is Seacare, Inc. or Ltd. a MAC certified importer??? Or just a certification supporter???

 

[dizzy]

Is Seacare, Inc. or Ltd. a MAC certified importer??? Or just a certification supporter???

Dear Ad,
Why don't you ask Tim? I remember that he made a couple of posts on this forum so if you search you should find him.

 

[Expos Forever]

Ad van Tage wrote

The other letters follow there ...

Posting them here will likely involve a request
to the authors seeking their permission to do so.
_________________

You're right. I assumed that since they had been previously linked, said permission was already given. Thank you for the link.

 

[MaryHM]

I agree with Mitch, ask Tim. However, I can say that Tim is an extremely good friend of mine and he is a small importer like me- just trying to do the right thing. He's not MAC certified and as far as I know has no intentions to be and could not be considered to be a MAC "supporter". You can (or at least could several months ago) request BFAR to do a test and pay for it and they would do it.

 

[Ad van Tage]

Is Seacare, Inc. or Ltd. a MAC certified importer??? Or just a certification supporter???

...
Why don't you ask Tim? I remember that he made a couple of posts on this forum so if you search you should find him.

***

I agree with Mitch, ask Tim. However, I can say that Tim is an extremely good friend of mine and he is a small importer like me- just trying to do the right thing. He's not MAC certified and as far as I know has no intentions to be and could not be considered to be a MAC "supporter". You can (or at least could several months ago) request BFAR to do a test and pay for it and they would do it.

***

In the new Seacare specific thread [Seacare says... : Cdn Importer's Comment abt CYANIDE CAUGHT.]
I already mentioned that I wrote to Seacare before I posted here.
I was / still am also interested in hearing comments and feedback here.

I believe if you read on in Tim's letter, you will find that he has found the co$t$ of the tests to be prohibitive. And has stopped asking for them.
I thought others had mentioned that the test were no longer available. But that may be faulty recall. I would certainly appreciate an update (here).

BUT I also wanted to hear about "certification" or not in view of:

It is very sad that people still sell Cyanide caught fish due to business reasons.
If the Governments ban the import of wild caught corals and fish we have the cyanide stores and our own apathy to blame!

...

The latest I see at the main Seacare webpage is:
"As of January 1st 2004 SeaCare Maricultured Products is WHOLESALE ONLY to Canadian Retailers."
And that now, ironically, includes a Big Chain, that sells cyanide caught fish, without hang-ups...
But hey, that could be a subject for a new thread, since this one is abt. MAC.. and certification, etc. etc.

So long,

___________________
~ Ad aka Ecoworrier ~

*** They can be reached via their webpage, which I included in my posts.

 

[dizzy]

The latest I see at the main Seacare webpage is:
"As of January 1st 2004 SeaCare Maricultured Products is WHOLESALE ONLY to Canadian Retailers."And that now, ironically, includes a Big Chain, that sells cyanide caught fish, without hang-ups...
But hey, that could be a subject for a new thread, since this one is abt. MAC.. and certification, etc. etc.

Dear Ad,
Just speculating here, but it sounds like the e-tailing may have been costing wholesale business. I think Tim made a wise decision. Are you trying to suggest that he shouldn't sell to Big Al's? Are you suggesting that it is somehow morally or ethically wrong? Please be a little clearer on what you are implying.
Thanks,
Mitch

 

[Ad van Tage]

I believe if you read on in Tim's letter, you will find that he has found the co$t$ of the tests to be prohibitive. And has stopped asking for them.
I thought others had mentioned that the test were no longer available. But that may be faulty recall. I would certainly appreciate an update (here).

I went back to find that reference:

"I thought I would dig up some old CDT permits from shipments from AMRI back in 2000. It was very interesting which fish were "Randomly Sampled". Lets see ... Green Chromis were in there several times as well as Mandarin Goby, Sixline Wrasses, Blue Damsels - Orange Tail and Firefish. Not once did I see Angels, Triggers or Tangs, the fish that are normally caught with cyanide. But at least if there was cyanide residues in the fish the ISE/Digestion test would have had a chance to pick it up. In the time since I have switched suppliers the test seems to be different as it is now administered by BFAR instead of the IMA. At least I can choose the fish I would like tested, such as Niger Trigger, Coral Beauty Angelfish etc. It's too bad that the test would not pick up any cyanide even if there was any. To add injury to insult the tests cost me 15usd each plus the cost of the fish. Last time for that!!!

DISCLAIMER: I am neither inferring, nor implying any motives here!

 

[Ad van Tage]

Just speculating here, but it sounds like the e-tailing may have been costing wholesale business. Mitch

You could always write and ask eh! 8O

 

[Ad van Tage]

The latest I see at the main Seacare webpage is:
"As of January 1st 2004 SeaCare Maricultured Products is WHOLESALE ONLY to Canadian Retailers."And that now, ironically, includes a Big Chain, that sells cyanide caught fish, without hang-ups...
But hey, that could be a subject for a new thread, since this one is abt. MAC.. and certification, etc. etc.

....
Just speculating here.................. Are you suggesting that it is somehow morally or ethically wrong? Please be a little clearer on what you are implying.

Mitch, perhaps less speculating and less implying is in order.

The IRONY to me is that a company that pushed hard to sell
"clean product",
is now selling into ALL, including "cyanide friendly", channels.
To be sure, I didn't suggest a thing about morals or ethics.

Don't you find this one bit ironic? 8O

 

[MaryHM]

This forum is not the place to discuss a private companies business practices, and I'm disappointed that Rover hasn't stopped this. As far a "clean" company selling into "unclean" channels- what freakin' choice do they have?? I mean, c'mon, there are less than a handful of retailers here in the States that are dedicated to clean fish. I can only imagine the chances of finding one in Canada are extremely slim. Clean suppliers have no choice except to sell into an unclean market. It's that or go out of business and then no one is supporting net caught.

 

[Anonymous]

it could be argued that diluting the suplly of cyanided fish with an 'infusion' of 'green' stock is a good thing

 

[Anonymous]

The IRONY to me is that a company that pushed hard to sell
"clean product",
is now selling into ALL, including "cyanide friendly", channels.

Not sure what your point is. It would be impossible for any wholesaler to screen all potential customers, or to require that they only purchase product from him. Simply providing a high quality healthy product is as much as any wholesaler can do.

 

[mkirda]

I believe if you read on in Tim's letter, you will find that he has found the co$t$ of the tests to be prohibitive. And has stopped asking for them.
I thought others had mentioned that the test were no longer available. But that may be faulty recall. I would certainly appreciate an update (here).

During the time of the IMA to BFAR lab change-over, the labs were reduced in number and not working at all for a time. Not sure how long.
But they are up and running now.
The prices I heard were less than this, but still prohibitive if you know the cost of a fish in Pisos...

Regards.
Mike Kirda

 

[mkirda]

The IRONY to me is that a company that pushed hard to sell "clean product", is now selling into ALL, including "cyanide friendly", channels.
To be sure, I didn't suggest a thing about morals or ethics.

Don't you find this one bit ironic? 8O

I don't find it ironic in the least. I see it as a ray of hope.
First step, one percent Net-caught.
Last step, 100 percent.

Isn't that the goal???

Regards.
Mike Kirda

 

[Ad van Tage]

empty post

 

[Ad van Tage]

it could be argued that diluting the suplly of cyanided fish with an 'infusion' of 'green' stock is a good thing

Yes, kinda like a "scratch and win" system...

Perhaps this is were the living--till-old-age "cyanide" fishies came from...


Too bad that "cyan" stands for blue
for I would sooner speak about the
blueing of the trade than the
greening thereof...

Mind you there is blue in green isn't there,
as well as some chicken yellow!



Such a PR disaster
cyan ... cyanide ...

 

[Ad van Tage]

This forum is not the place to discuss a private companies business practices, and I'm disappointed that Rover hasn't stopped this. As far a "clean" company selling into "unclean" channels- what freakin' choice do they have?? I mean, c'mon, there are less than a handful of retailers here in the States that are dedicated to clean fish. I can only imagine the chances of finding one in Canada are extremely slim. Clean suppliers have no choice except to sell into an unclean market. It's that or go out of business and then no one is supporting net caught.

Mary, with all respect, this forum is called "Industry and the Hobby".
That does not mean that we should have off-limits when it doesn't suit
a particular picture you may have.

I have nothing but the greatest respect for those companies that are trying to make a difference and who are trying to make their business as clean and ethical as possible.

In my mind it is therefore a sad comment on the state of affairs in this trade when a business can not do business that remains clean all the way.

I think we have seen this with the source < i.e. the "clean" net catchers to the exporters *** > and we see it also on the receiving end < clean importers and retailers >

One would think that you of all people would see the irony, that in order to survive, "clean links" appear to - at least at the present time - having to put water in the wine...


What does that tell us???

Would you not sooner sell ALL your fish to dealers who will NOT sell cyanide-caught :?: :?: :?:

_________________
~ Ad aka Ecoworrier ~

*** which was discussed HERE , without an uproar...

 

[Kalkbreath]

Most dealers have little knowledge about where the fish they are buying came from {which island Country }.........our how they {the fish } were collected ..........all dealers order net collected. Do you really think stores order with the words "cyanide collected fish PLEASE" ? Its the importers who import ........Most importers dont even admit they carry PI fish . Its not the storefronts which support the cyanide trade .....its the importers. Second , the main reason importers order from PI , is that air freight space is so limited and expensive from other islands. Airspace out of Bali and Tonga is sold out every flight..it takes weeks y\to actually get a flight out of Vanuatu.......the collectors in Phonope are too lazy to collect .....The Red Sea collectors ..only collect large fish .........Hawai collectors dont collect gobies and blennies ................The list of reasons WHY importers buy from the Philippines goes far beyond simply the desire for cheap fish ..........But the main reason is that in order to stay in business ..........you must have fish to sell!!!........... But before you generalize the state of the fish supply in PI ............keep in mind that the last time cyanide collection was under close scrutiny ....[late ninties]....the cyanide rate was only 8% of tested fish . Eight percent of three million fish ......in a country which fishes for food fish exclusively with poison,at a rate of twenty-thousand tones each year about half of total seafood fish collection .........is quite low indeed. With , ninety-five percent of collectors in PI being self employed .......That is they the collectors fish when they want to and how they want to ........What percentage do you feel is a reasonable goal? Five percent? What makes you so sure we have not already reached the target goal? 100 perent will never happen ..........There will always be cheaters .........{Like the posted speed limit on U.S roads }........

 

[mkirda]

But before you generalize the state of the fish supply in PI ............keep in mind that the last time cyanide collection was under close scrutiny ....[late ninties]....the cyanide rate was only 8% of tested fish .

What a blatant lie!!!

Don't you have *ANY* shame, Kalk?

Kalk, the Cyanide Information Officer, taking lessons from his hero, the former Iraqi Information Minister...

 

[MaryHM]

Mary, with all respect, this forum is called "Industry and the Hobby".
That does not mean that we should have off-limits when it doesn't suit
a particular picture you may have.

It isn't a question of keeping it off-limits because it "doesn't suit a particular picture" I have. It's about the RULES OF THE FORUM. There is a very specific rule here about not talking about individual companies- especially if they aren't participating. There have been serious problems in this forum when that rule has been broken. It is a RULE. Not some idea of mine because I'm friends with Tim. And that is why I am disappointed that Rover hasn't done anything about this. If we were talking about an RDO sponsor, you can bet your butt that this thread would have been altered immediately.

Hey RDO, why is it ok to talk about SeaCare, but it wasn't ok to talk about Foster's and Smith?? Double standard?? If a company is paying you for advertising then they're off limits, otherwise they're fair game. :roll: