Killer seaweed still lurking in California Bay?

[Ninong]

Posidonia oceanica, a Mediterranean endemic species, is one of the best-known as well as most endangered plants in the Mediterranean Sea. It is not an alga but a flowering plant, i.e. a vascular plant with all the characteristic body parts - rhizome and roots, leaves, flowers and fruits. At first sight it reminds us of grasses; this is the reason why we usually refer to it as a grass, which can be also said of other flowering plants living in the Mediterranean and Adriatic - Cymodocea nodosa, Zostera marina and Zostera nana.

Posidonia oceanica is the largest 'seagrass' in the Mediterranean and Adriatic Seas. Its name - after Poseidon, the god of the sea - seems very appropriate indeed, for its extensive underwater meadows that spread from the shore to the depth of 40 meters represent one of the key ecosystems of the Mediterranean Sea. Most often they are found on silty and sandy floors, less often on hard ground. Its rhizomes, which can grow horizontally or vertically, are densely intertwined and constitute a kind of a secondary Bottom. This may be several decimeters thick and can at places create actual reefs. At the tip of each rhizome there is a shoot of a centimeter wide and even more than a meter long leaves. Their numbers vary during the year, ranging between 5 and 8. The older leaves situated on the outer side of the shoot fall off but are soon replaced by new ones growing in the shoot's interior.

The meadows of Posidonia oceanica are of great importance for the marine ecosystem, not only in view of producing oxygen and organic substances (approx. 20 tons/ha/year) but also as a biotope for an infinite number of marine organisms dependent on such meadows in terms of their diet, habitat, shelter, etc. There are also many sessile organisms, which live attached to the surface of the leaves and rhizomes. There is of course more than enough place for them, considering that the actual surface area of all leaves in a single square meter of a meadow ranges from 20 to 50 m2. Posidonia meadows are at the same time a very important factor in the diminishing of erosion. With their undulation they slow down the wave motion a great deal and thus the impact of the sea exerted on the shore.

Posidonia oceanica has been declared an endangered species in some of the countries bordering the Mediterranean and Adriatic.

Sarpa salpa, herbivorous fish native to the Mediterranean that eats P. oceanica but not C. taxifolia.

 

[Kalkbreath]

The fact that Posidonia oceanica is on the endangered species list is in part why we need to find a replacement.............one factor causing this native grass to become endangered is that it thrives in very few locations in nature............the new "green mutant "on the other hand will even {by some accounts on the backs of the hands of scientists} grow where no weed has gone before...thus making unproductive seafloor a green habitat and much more productive. I understand that the grass beds of the native grasses and Algae beds are very productive .......but because these habitats are naturally limited and in most cases dwindling, even in areas which the mutant hybrid has yet to venture..........perhaps this new plant can do what the native plants cannot................adapt to the ever increasing demands man has placed on the sea.....
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[Kalkbreath]

There is a document :wink: ary on the killer weed, comming out on PBS next week! Lets sea how they spin the Calurpa? :wink:
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[Anonymous]

kalk-i've actually seen a documentary on pbs on caulerpa in the mediterranean sea-it may be that the one your talking about is a repeat

the picture it paints about the caulerpa is not a nice one at all 8O

it clearly illustrates just what a huge and nasty problem it actually is, and how biological controls are desperately being searched for to control/ eradicate it, due to the environmental damage it has caused to date

 

[Kalkbreath]

Yes , most likely the spin will be how green is not good..... funny how this is the only example of more green not being a good thing?{ and the ONLY example of more green on the face of the Earth come to think of it?}............... Next ,if coral reefs start sprouting up along the south Carolina coast........{due to warmer "greenhouse" seas} The new coral reefs growing in areas that until now were barren sand bottom ...........the coral will be displacing the native sand crabs and the coral reefs being non native will need to be stopped! :roll:
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[Anonymous]

Kalk, I dont' know what to say man. You really take the cake. Your concerns are a little misguided here.

how this is the only example of more green not being a good thing?{ and the ONLY example of more green on the face of the Earth come to think of it?}

1) There are tons of examples of more green being a horrible thing. And exotic caulerpa isn't the only one. See Cogon grass, Chinese privet, Australian pines, kudzoo, and the numerous others. In all of these cases, the plants are introduced non-natives that are causing destruction to our native habitats. We in GA should be particularly aware of Cogon grass, as it is debilitating our already severly rare wiregrass/long-leaf pine ecosystems.

2) You are correct in your assertion that warming sea temps may change the distribution of corals worldwide. However, the alarming trend is that there isn't a lot of hard-bottom areas with clear water conducive to the growth of corals that isn't already inhabited. In other words, your belief that Acorporas and Montastreas will somehow thrive in the warmer waters off the coasts of the Carolinas is not very realistic. It would work, if water temperature is the only thing that drives coral distribution. However, it is very clear that nutrients and water clarity play as important of a role in determining coral distributions as temperature. The coastal Atlantic US is too deep, too murky, too silty, and has elevated nutrient levels. A lot of this is attributed to the outflow of many river basins into the Atlantic, as well as the saltmarshes and lack of mangrove areas. A good example of how this works is found in Oculina varicosa. In the Keys, it is found as a dark brown variety with its zooxanthellae symbionts. However, lower water clarity and light diffusion in the carolinas means most of these are found as bright white and lacking any zooxanthellae and associated symbionts. This is where it gets its common name of Ivory coral. Luckily, this coral has large polyps capable of sustaining itself on passing food in the water column.



Cogon grass http://www.nps.gov/plants/alien/fact/imcy1.htm

 

[Kalkbreath]

Kalk, I dont' know what to say man. You really take the cake. Your concerns are a little misguided here.

how this is the only example of more green not being a good thing?{ and the ONLY example of more green on the face of the Earth come to think of it?}

1) There are tons of examples of more green being a horrible thing. And exotic caulerpa isn't the only one. See Cogon grass, Chinese privet, Australian pines, kudzoo, and the numerous others. In all of these cases, the plants are introduced non-natives that are causing destruction to our native habitats. We in GA should be particularly aware of Cogon grass, as it is debilitating our already severly rare wiregrass/long-leaf pine ecosystems.

2) You are correct in your assertion that warming sea temps may change the distribution of corals worldwide. However, the alarming trend is that there isn't a lot of hard-bottom areas with clear water conducive to the growth of corals that isn't already inhabited. In other words, your belief that Acorporas and Montastreas will somehow thrive in the warmer waters off the coasts of the Carolinas is not very realistic. It would work, if water temperature is the only thing that drives coral distribution. However, it is very clear that nutrients and water clarity play as important of a role in determining coral distributions as temperature. The coastal Atlantic US is too deep, too murky, too silty, and has elevated nutrient levels. A lot of this is attributed to the outflow of many river basins into the Atlantic, as well as the saltmarshes and lack of mangrove areas. A good example of how this works is found in Oculina varicosa. In the Keys, it is found as a dark brown variety with its zooxanthellae symbionts. However, lower water clarity and light diffusion in the carolinas means most of these are found as bright white and lacking any zooxanthellae and associated symbionts. This is where it gets its common name of Ivory coral. Luckily, this coral has large polyps capable of sustaining itself on passing food in the water column.



Cogon grass http://www.nps.gov/plants/alien/fact/imcy1.htm

AGAIN, you cant sea the forrest for the trees, What displaces more native species then all others combined? .............It is not an exotic plant........its your home, driveway , street.......More animals live in a patch of kudzu , then live in a native forrest floor. The dear have munched native plants to the point that many plants are endangered from the dear over grazing. There is few places for small rodents to hide and seek shelter. GOOD thing dear dont eat the gift from Asia... Lastly...if we sink a few hundered ships on the sand bottom along with some "Reef Balls" their would be amble "hard bottom " for corals to grow. But my point is that even if coral could grown off the Carolinas......the enviro wackos would want the native sand bottom ....... There is no reason that the Calurpa growing in the Med ,just by giving fish a better place to hide.........would not act like an artificial reef }or like a nylon fish mat like those used in getting aquacultured fish to spawn on} just by giving animals MORE cover the open sand bottom, you end up with more fish... I understand that in the few places where the native sea grass grows that the native grass does a better job...... but most areas were open sand.
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[Anonymous]

More animals live in a patch of kudzu , then live in a native forrest floor.

:roll:

 

[Kalkbreath]

Tell you what, go out into any of the woods in Metro Atlanta......Add up the number of woodland creatures you see as you walk........I usually see a few squirrels on the ground {ten times more are in my very un natural neighborhood} I find some birds while walking in the woods.{once again more birds around my house then any "Natural"woods within one hundred miles} But crawl under a huge mat of kudzu in July and you would not believe what lies beneath! Turtles, muskrats snakes, lizards, many of the endangered orange salamanders........oposumes.even the people whom raised me, did so under a giant carpet of Kudzu!............. I have removed quite a bit if this land calurpa over the years in my landscape Company and You scientist types would understand how many animals and insects live under this gift from Asia .................If you scientists were not so scared of the" monsters that might be under there'! ...........................When I hike in the national forests, I am constantly surprised at how few animals I find?
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[JennM]

Tell you what, go out into any of the woods in Metro Atlanta......Add up the number of woodland creatures you see as you walk........I usually see a few squirrels on the ground {ten times more are in my very un natural neighborhood} I find some birds while walking in the woods.{once again more birds around my house then any "Natural"woods within one hundred miles} But crawl under a huge mat of kudzu in July and you would not believe what lies beneath! Turtles, muskrats snakes, lizards, many of the endangered orange salamanders........oposumes.even the people whom raised me, did so under a giant carpet of Kudzu!............. I have removed quite a bit if this land calurpa over the years in my landscape Company and You scientist types would understand how many animals and insects live under this gift from Asia .................If you scientists were not so scared of the" monsters that might be under there'! ...........................When I hike in the national forests, I am constantly surprised at how few animals I find?

Now that last statement should have come with a spew alert~!

Wow, thanks, Kalk, you just saved me thousands of $$$ -- instead of hiring a landscaper to make my back yard nice, I'm just going to transplant some Kudzu, and watch all the wildlife flock to my yard Perhaps in a year or two I can charge admission.... because according to you I'll have a zoo that would make Steve Irwin jealous! :roll:

We put the "zoo" in Kudzu... :lol:

:::::Just shaking my head:::::

Jenn

 

[Kalkbreath]

I am not sure what a spew alert is?...........Are you stating that you disagree there are more life forms living under a carpet of kudzu., then that same area if it was bare ground? In turn .I have yet to see a scientific study comparing an area of The Mutant Calurepa.to that same area if it was bare sand bottom? The few I have read purposely limit the comparisons to that of the native grass beds. Even then the findings are that there is little difference. Just imagine Ocean the greater amount of life living in the lush culerpa , compared to the sand { .of which the Taxifolia is replacing in the Med]............. There was a time in the deep past ,that Giant Kelp first began to grow in the waters of southern California's Pacific......... {It was not always there!} After the kelp took hold, more and more sealife learned how to use this new plant to each species advantage. Now more sea life can live in that area due to the simple fact that there is something to hide in..........................life will also adjust to the new landscape in the Mediterranean.............and just like one day thousands of years ago ,off the coast of California, The entire area will be better off with the addition of that one in a million plant .
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[mkirda]

In turn .I have yet to see a scientific study comparing an area of The Mutant Calurepa.to that same area if it was bare sand bottom? The few I have read purposely limit the comparisons to that of the native grass beds. Even then the findings are that there is little difference.

This just proves that either: 1) You've read a few irrelevant studies, or 2) That you did not understand what you read.

You argue the same tired, misinformed points whether talking about kudzu, C. taxifolia, or cyanide fishing. A simple lit search on any of these subjects would prove your arguments wrong, if you bothered to read and understand them.

Regards.
Mike Kirda

 

[Kalkbreath]

Then please point me to your basis of understanding.......you fail to answer any of my direct questions.{I have followed your blind leads and links}....you follow the same obsequious path you have been plodding for the whole of your existence........Show me that more animals live on the bare sand bottom, then in the lush green ........either on land or in the sea.... I have seen both first hand ......There is plenty of taxifolia in the Fla Keys and more then enough Kudzu around Ga.... .... You have most likely never looked up from the textbook on your lap....... The time of sophomoric preachers leading the public over that" lemur cliff" is no longer.....
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