Question for John about netting material

[Anonymous]

About the white netting offered to unsuspecting visitors to "show sincerity" in promoting net collecting.
If the netting itself was bogus, what may we deduce from it on the part of the "institutional figures" showing it?

Or maybe it was just a ceremonial netting for a photo op? By your rationale the only way for the picture to be legit would be if they went fishing with it as soon as it was snapped. Just because they didn't photograph the "exact same net" they planned on fishing with, doesn't mean much.

 

[mkirda]

Or maybe it was just a ceremonial netting for a photo op? By your rationale the only way for the picture to be legit would be if they went fishing with it as soon as it was snapped. Just because they didn't photograph the "exact same net" they planned on fishing with, doesn't mean much.

Rover,

There is so..... much history behind Steve's statement.

The netting Lolita showed the MAC tour was probably just straight nylon mesh.

Steve inferred that it was the only netting shown, and that by showing him this particular netting, that Lolita was presenting it as the netting used for barrier nets. Not having been there, I cannot say one way or another...
John indicated that Lolita presented it as netting material, and did not specify what type of net it was used for. He also said that he was shown bundles of the monofilament netting used for barrier netting. Trouble is that he didn't take any pictures of the monofilament netting...

Having heard as much negative press about the PTFEA as I have, after seeing that picture, I can truly understand why Steve made the assumption(s) he did. There is also a mistrust of motives between a lot of parties here.
Remember, Rover, you haven't had a price on your head.
Steve has. He has reasons to be suspicious of motives.

It probably is just all a misunderstanding, based on the unfortunate time a particular photo was taken.
Had the collector been holding a bundle of monofilament netting, the effect would have been quite, quite different.

However, I do have to say that there are collectors out there who are using even this nylon mesh netting material for nets, particularly butterfly nets. Not sure if this is significant or not.
All the barrier nets I saw were monofilament, not nylon.

Anyway, when John said he also saw the monofilament bundles, this picture took on a whole lot less meaning for me.

Regards.
Mike Kirda

 

[MaryHM]

So I guess my only question would be this:

Why is the netting sitting in the warehouse and not out in the field where it is actually useful???

 

[mkirda]

Why is the netting sitting in the warehouse and not out in the field where it is actually useful???

Mary,

She sells it to the fishermen. Lolita told me in an e-mail that she has a deal with some local manufacturer- she has them make the monofilament netting, then she supplies it (at a cost) to the fishermen.

She is a businesswoman, so it makes perfect sense.
Can't fault her for making some money on it.

Regards.
Mike Kirda

 

[clarionreef]

Mike,
The only thing as bad as white nylon netting is .020 mm monofilament netting, the type the institutional figures have passed out.
This is the wrong stuff...not "custom made" and readiliy available in the fishing supply houses of Divisoria.
This very thin thread stuff slices the fishes fins on contact like a cheese slicer. If it were permissable netting, it would already be in use as the divers want the good stuff so badly.
If a fish hits it "gently" then he could come thru ok. Thats a minority of em.
The machine capable of weaving the thicker monofilament thread
is not in Manila. Nor will it be. Its very expensive and as such, the netting that works has been imported from Taiwan and Japan.
To answer MARYS question. The bundles aree there not for divers...they're there for visitors. Not professional fish collector visitors who would never be taken in or impressed....but the other kind.
Steve

 

[John_Brandt]

The man in the photo is a net fisherman who was getting some netting. I asked them to pose with that particular netting because I thought it would look good in a photo. I don't even know if that was the netting he took.

He invited me to come to his village to watch him collect fish anytime, unannouced if I chose to. He said he has been catching fish for the trade for 32 years!

 

[clarionreef]

John,
I have no doubt that the guy in the photo was catching fish for 32 years....but not with that stuff!
Look...to get an idea of what happens when the "...just any program but cyanide" is designed by office people, in Indonesia there is an institutional outfit working to convert cyanide fisherman...in theory, and using misquito netting! Why? Because as usual, they did not consult with any Australian collectors of Filipino collectors already doing things right. More disturbing is the fact that these types of phoney programs seems to be increasing exponentially and run in the service of themselves. Not the divers, not the trade and certainly not to keep the divers from backsliding to cyanide.
Phoney programs seemed designed to send the divers back to cyanide and therein lies the harm. Harm that is needless and easily avoided. As in AID to Africa, aid to coral reefs can be manipulated to serve not the intended but the institutuional self.
Innocent mistake or self centered motive? The net result is backsliding to cyanide as the diver is left with little to improve his livlihood with...away from the camera.
Steve

 

[Jaime Baquero]

Hi all,

Fish exporters in the Philippines are getting nylon monofilament netting with o.17 mm dia. 3/8" mesh 400MD X 150 mtrs/bundle. I sent all the iformation regarding the supplier in Japan to Mike Kirda long time ago. Tad Akamatsu from Tecnets Co in Osaka Japan is one of the main suppliers of nets for the industry in the Philippines. Fish exporters are getting material from this supplier it is a fact.


Jaime

 

[Jaime Baquero]

The lady in the picture is Lolita Ty. I met her in different occasions. It is amazing to see how you guys are so destructive with your comments. Lolita Ty has been providing barrier nets to fish collectors for many years. It is not fair that you Mike, Steve and others make poor statements to ridicule someone. This kind of behavior is very negative and must be avoided.

Respect please!

Jaime

 

[clarionreef]

Dear Jaime,
If it were true what you say, it would be fantastic news.
If there really were the netting available today and if there really were so many trained as you have said, then there would be no problem.
Please give MAC all this wonderful news so that they may finally start producing the fish for the certified stores eagerly awaiting product.
Don't keep it a secret any longer. Let them know immediately and let us all know how it went!
Thankfully, Steve

 

[Mike King]

To get some clarification on this matter of netting I'm putting down my pen and breaking out the video tape of the visit to that exporter facilitys you are all talking about. Yes I had the camcorder on and I did get some footage it wasn't easy seeing the humidity was so high and going from the chilly office to the hot and humid stock area can distroy the video head instantly.

1st a Question? are direct quotes permissable here on the board?

If not I won't waste my time, and therefore I can then get back to working on CORL's workshop for Community Based Coral Reef Farming, Reef Restoration and Management that's next week.

Mike

The exporter can call me at 684-258-4380 if ---- dosn't want me to quote ---. or have ---- son call me.

Mike King

 

[Jaime Baquero]

Steve

It is evident that there are some important aspects of the industry that you ignore. You can not expect that exporter X-Y or Z provide nets for the thousands of fish collectors in the Philippines. How can you explain that the real money makers of this industry ( aquaria, filtration systems, lighting systems, medications and chemicals, books, etc etc etc. and of course fish dealers in North America) didn't supply any of the nets required by fisherfolks ?

Think positive and you'll go further.

Sincerelly

jaime

 

[clarionreef]

Jaime,
The well worn and professional pathway of distribution of cyanide to the collectors for 30 years can also make available the cheaper netting material.
To assist in this endeavor, since the exporters don't know how and where to get the right mix of netting material, we have a sudden and surprising plethora of NET FUNDS popping up. In the last 3 days we have already seen two, with still more to follow.
The manufacturers will no doubt be hit up to contribute.
Steve

 

[Jaime Baquero]

Steve,

Those are good news. It is time for the industry to put something back. Isn't it? We must encourage eachone of the stakeholders of this industry to contribute to the net training program, keeping in mind that the solution to the environmental problem in the Philippines requires a holistic approach which includes social and economic factors to community level. The problem is more complex that many think. The technical aspect that can be solved by providing nets to the fisherfloks, but we can not forget the other two aspects.

jaime

 

[Len]

1st a Question? are direct quotes permissable here on the board?

It's not a good/safe idea (legally or ethically) to reprint private conversations in public without the consent of all parties involved. With that said, actual quotes are permissable so long as they're true and not used for malacious intent. As always, be respectful.

 

[John_Brandt]

1st a Question? are direct quotes permissable here on the board?

It's not a good/safe idea (legally or ethically) to reprint private conversations in public without the consent of all parties involved. With that said, actual quotes are permissable so long as they're true and not used for malacious intent. As always, be respectful.

And of course paraphrasing or characterizing actual quotes in one's own words is always admissible. All secondhand information and quotes are hearsay. And should always be treated as such.

Recorded conversations obviously carry much relevant weight, and reliable paraphrasing from them would rank highly as quality hearsay.

Mike, what she say?