degall 55":1j9agkcp said:
Thanx muchly for that Dennis! The site www.theimac.org is indeed again responding!
The Right Way to Go!
- Thread starter Ad van Tage
- Start date
Thanx muchly for that Dennis! The site www.theimac.org is indeed again responding!
Funny you should ask that....? Lets just say ,sooner then you might think .........But, I have a few thing to work out first.....For one thing ..........I think about five minutes into my speech .....there would be a mob rush on stage ........and all you guys would shove candy up my but...... string me up like some kind of Mexican birthday toy and bash my body with sticks until I cracked open and spilled out onto the floor.....{ You like that image do ya?} There is a huge gap between what is discussed in iMACO meetings and what happens out on the reefs ......Their two different worlds .........The divers collecting and sending stuff to the importers ..........and this whole cutting edge industry thing ....... They are not connected ........In fact, the "right way to go" theme of this years get together, seems to be distancing the reefs and the hobby by insinuating that there is a fork in the road? If one direction is helping the reefs and the natives that fish them ......and the other fork in the road is focusing on alternative methods for producing livestock ......... Then I think even Maco understands that perhaps by abandoning the reefs and focusing on aquaculture and mariculture ......the hobby washes its hands of the problems facing the reefs ...What better way of not having to adress the REAL issues .......? Twenty years from now , when the last of the wild coral reefs bleaches white .......and the hobby, long ago having ended wild collection of any and all livestock for the hobby. Will be able to boast the 100 percent captive bred livestock industry, as proof that our hobby was not a part of the reefs demise........But this is not the road I wish to take...........Today ....Our industry and its relationship with the living reefs is the ONLY working relationship that has any hope of persuading the locals of taking better care of these ecosystems .........Tourism is a close second, But that industry took a huge hit after the Bali bombing and may never return in full force..........The American reef and aquarium hobby is purring at full throttle ....We are the only group of people in the world {Hobbyists} that have the money, the momentum and balls to accost the seafood industry......With the apparent fork in the road and the new path["the right way to go"] {that of less wild collection] ..........This may be the point of no return in this journey...........Do we as hobbyists, turn away from the cries for help our little polypoid friends ask ..........and focus on alternative harvests? Or do we rip off our shirts like the hulk and dive head first into the abyss to defend the reefs by smacking the seafood fishermen in the face and make our mark in history?
Kalkbreath":19p804k8 said:
Who (or what) is iMACO?
And where has MACO said anything about abandoning the reefs?
MACO is an on-line course: I don't think anything they have taught has focused on aquaculture or mariculture...
Very confused because none of this makes any sense.
Regards.
Mike Kirda
There has been a whole reeform industry created.........without first establishing how many fish we consume per year........Is it 3million ? or 90 million like you claim? If its 3 million , then thats a very tiny number spread out over the 25,000 square kilometers .........Given that food fishing removes four tonnes per kilometer from the same waters........mkirda":fvpa7ttr said:Kalkbreath":fvpa7ttr said:
Seems to me to be a strange way to 'prove' anything!
Regards.
Mike Kirda
Food fishermen remove fifty times more fish from the same reefs in PI as our hobby collects and they collect it with blast fishing and poison !........further more, over sixty percent of the fish our hobby removes are damsels chromis and clownfish......which are very plentiful even today after twenty years of collection ..........our collection of these fish types has had little effect. The remaining 40% of fish imported is made up of fifty fish types ranging from groupers to tiny blennies ..........and so few of any one species is collected , it has little effect on the wild stocks.. On the other hand, Food fishing not only takes many more fish from the reefs, but the seafood and domestic use of dynamite and cyanide to collect .....is far more destructive to the reef itself {because the food fishermen use cyanide levels that are so strong that they kill huge areas of live reef }......in contrast, what cyanide fishing for our hobby does occur, is very tiny concentrations that rarely kills the targeted fish {like blue tangs}or the coral with which they hide......Without addressing the more destructive fishing like the seafood industry ......There cannot be any improvement in the health of the reefsgracie":2txujeqz said:
Kalkbreath":1b6rnh7i said:
Based on what sources?
How are you doing the comparison? Biomass? Number of fish?
Are you lumping together reef fish with non-reef fish?
You've never established any basis for any of the numbers like this you have put forth. They are fantasy near as any of us can figure from examining PUBLISHED RESOURCES.
You make the claim. Back it up.
Regards.
Mike Kirda
How many metric tonnes of food fish are removed from the Municipal waters is PI each year ............? There are many sources to quote{..........Peter Rubic stated two tons every kilometer square as his estimate..{whats yours?}........What standard do you suggest to compare the two industries? Lets use damsels ..How many damsels does it take to reach two tonsper kilometer ? Fifty thousand ? We collect about ten damsels per kilometersquare to there fifty thousand .................. :wink:mkirda":2ak16tqm said:
Kalkbreath":28ropg8m said:
Stop WINKING and BLINKING Kalkbreath! All it does is to indicate a LOOSE connection. And guess where that might be!
When will it sink into your Kalkhead that this forum is not about FOOD FISH??? No doubt there are ALL sorts of problems OUTSIDE the MARINE ORNAMENTAL HOBBY. No-one disagrees!
However, to constantly use those other problems as red herrings in your obfuscations, contributes about as much to the health of this forum as those infamous 55 gallon drums of cyanide do for the reefs in PI. Nor does it help on other forums where your "antics" use the same "tactics".
I give you fair warning that since this is a new year I have personally stocked up on some 55 gallon drums of K-Listerine and K-Scope planned as Kalk-halitosis counterdoses. [ New year; new budget!!! AND new energy! ]
Enough snowjobs, enough red herrings, enough Kalkifications!
So give it a break and a FRESH breath, Kalkbreath, and try to actually make some REAL contributions. I think this forum deserves that!
Stick to providing supported statements, as well as actually ANSWERING challenges to your many repeat wild-ass claims!
BETTER YET, tell us what your constructive ideas are about improving the environmental record of the industry behind this hobby.
Or, just ask some questions, and listen carefully to the answers and the discussion. Who knows, you might actually learn something!
Finally, do you actually "trade" in fishies? Or do you basically design outdoor waterfalls for backyards?
Merry X-mas!!!!!!!!!!!!! { 2004 , in case you take a long vacation now }
mkirda":26w1twx5 said:
Mike,
The e-mail I received, as well as the first page on www.theimac.org shows
Where it says "Click here for more information." it also repeats those dates.
Perhaps you can pin point the later dates and communicate with "Degall 55"
I have not seen those dates June 25th, 26th and 27th listed...
Your kinda new to the board.......If you do a search and review my past few years on this board.......You will find that There is only one person on the entire web that actually and openly corrects the many silly urban rumors about this hobby ........If you wish to challenge the data I put forth then by all means do ........But please actually say something......Bad breath and grammar are my trademarks ......but so is up ending silly notions ..........so tell me what you think you know? I dont think you have demonstrated why this way is "the right way to go"?Yet you seem to be supporting the choice of words? You seem to have followed the other sheep .....mindlessly following the leaders of reeform ........... Did you have any idea how many fish our hobby removes from the reefs ? Did you realize it was so tiny ? !.....One fish per day per square mile is quite tiny ?...Can you do math? Have you ever bothered to do the math ? .Or did you just jump in line with the rest of the reeformers?.Chanting "save the reefs"? Do you have any idea how many boxes land in LAX each week? no ? Do you have any idea what hobby collectors do for a living if they cant collect for our hobby? They destroy the reefs by Food fishing ........see you only care about the Hobby and its image .........I care about the reefs . :wink:
Kalkbreath":2slxcitu said:
Glad you CARE, Kalkbreath. I'll take that as a positive, along with another "wink". But apart from that, your post is another standard Kalkification.
What about - as requested - an actual answer to:
Ad van Tage":2slxcitu said:
No more herrings please , red or otherwise!
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