Cyanide: What it does to the reefs

[Anonymous]

-milz-

 

[Anonymous]

Concerning your statistics in the original post, they're unfounded. I don't see any mortalities anywhere near what you're claiming. If I did, I'd be out of business. So would everyone else stateside. How you can say that all of those fish are dying at such incredible rates and then turn around and say "They have the infrastructure in place to do it but continue with the cyanide route because it is more profitable" is beyond me.

Concerning the cyanide getting to the divers, I have been told by numerous people that it is one way the middlemen keep the divers under control- by keeping them in debt via their cyanide tab. It's second hand information from what I consider to be reliable sources, but it could be wrong.

Thank you for coming to my assistance on the cyanide debt issue.
I have posted these statistics many times on both RC and RDO and they were never challenged by you. Those statistics were originally posted by someone knowledgeable in the industry.

The reason they are dying in those numbers and the reefs is dying is because cyanide is a lethal poison.
Squirt it into a reef and what would you expect other than death in these numbers. That is why when they were posted I believed them.

show me your post from the past where you posted that 50% of fish died from first initial cyanide application on the reefs as established by anyone now , or be called a liar

you've even never posted such a thing

i'll give you 1 day, should be more than enough time, it was YOUR supposed post :lol:

 

[Len]

JT, conduct yourself in a civil, respectful manner.

 

[JT]

JT, conduct yourself in a civil, respectful manner.

Excuse me?

What was disrepectful?

 

[clarionreef]

aww,
Grateful took away the coral beauty shot.
What reef was that?
S

 

[Anonymous]

This is a free board guys, and with that comes the priviledge to hold any opinion regardless of it's accuracy, or event he ability to back it up. There is no need to tell anyone to shut up.

 

[JT]

Fine. Let naesco continue to spread his paranoia propoganda built on lack of experience, misrepresentation of facts, and a total misunderstanding of "industry". Why you want to continue babying this guy and putting up with his BS is beyond me, but go ahead and continue with your little soap opera.

 

[Anonymous]

aww,
Grateful took away the coral beauty shot.
What reef was that?
S

:lol:
I'm not sure actually but I wish I were there! :wink:

 

[Len]

JT,
Telling someone to STFU is certainly not civil or mature. If you think Naesco isn't presenting accurate information, disprove it. Feel free to attack his ideas (in a civil manner, of course). Just abstain from attacking the person. I trust people can make up their own minds if everyone presents their point of view.

 

[JT]

Telling someone to STFU is certainly not civil or mature.

I didn't tell him to STFU, I "asked" him to, like others have many times in other more indirect manners. This is nothing to make a big deal over, sheesh.

Therefore, as others have asked, I respectfully ask you to STFU.

 

[Len]

If I asked you to just die, would that be civil? I don't see how phrasing an disrespectful idea as a question instead of an imperative makes it better. All Rover and I are asking for is for everyone to be mature and civil. Yes, it does matter to us.

 

[horge]

John,
Hi.
The nature of cyanide distribution depends a bit on the relationship between the parties involved.

My recollection is that even if the collector is a regular supplier of the wholesaler, 'cost of cyanide used' is still deducted from their income. For really-longtime suppliers --such collectors being de facto employees of the wholesaler, it may not. This is true in Palawan and Southern Tagalog. Less so in Quezon, the Visayas and further South.

Many 'wholesalers' have a handful of intimate regulars, and further a bunch of people who are transitory freelancers, or freelancers trying to make it as regulars. For those latter, cyanide cost is automatically imposed.

Ferdinand's observations are certainly more current,
but I saw what I saw.

 

[naesco]

Fine. Let naesco continue to spread his paranoia propoganda built on lack of experience, misrepresentation of facts, and a total misunderstanding of "industry". Why you want to continue babying this guy and putting up with his BS is beyond me, but go ahead and continue with your little soap opera.

So JT my comment on the death rate due to cyanide was confirmed to be true by Dr. Rubec who is the world expert on cyanide.

My comment on the sale of cyanide has been confirmed by both Mary and Horge.

Kindly post what is troubling you. Thank you

 

[Anonymous]

So JT my comment on the death rate due to cyanide was confirmed to be true by Dr. Rubec who is the world expert on cyanide.

Re-read Dr. Rubec's response please Wayne.. - 50% does not equal the 30% that Dr. Rubec mentioned..

Unless you'd like us to think you pad everything with at least 20% BS of course... :wink:

 

[naesco]

So JT my comment on the death rate due to cyanide was confirmed to be true by Dr. Rubec who is the world expert on cyanide.

Re-read Dr. Rubec's response please Wayne.. - 50% does not equal the 30% that Dr. Rubec mentioned..

Unless you'd like us to think you pad everything with at least 20% BS of course... :wink:

I did. I think you should one more time.

 

[Anonymous]

So JT my comment on the death rate due to cyanide was confirmed to be true by Dr. Rubec who is the world expert on cyanide.

Re-read Dr. Rubec's response please Wayne.. - 50% does not equal the 30% that Dr. Rubec mentioned..

Unless you'd like us to think you pad everything with at least 20% BS of course... :wink:

I did. I think you should one more time.

no offense to peter intended...

is he 'the world expert', or 'an' expert , wayne ?

 

[naesco]

So JT my comment on the death rate due to cyanide was confirmed to be true by Dr. Rubec who is the world expert on cyanide.

Re-read Dr. Rubec's response please Wayne.. - 50% does not equal the 30% that Dr. Rubec mentioned..

Unless you'd like us to think you pad everything with at least 20% BS of course... :wink:

I did. I think you should one more time.

no offense to peter intended...

is he 'the world expert', or 'an' expert , wayne ?

I have had the opportunity of reading a number of papers written by Dr. Rubec and have tried to get my hands on a much information as I can on the cyanide subject. Based on his credentials I am of the opinion that he is a world expert. Are there other experts? I am sure there is but I have not stumbled upon them.

 

[Anonymous]

I did. I think you should one more time.

Ok.. - Well, hhmm.. - Lets see...

The fish exit and immediately 50% of them die from the lethal poison.
The remaining stunned fish are collected and by the time they reach the shore 50% of those collected die.
By the time the remaining fish are transported to the cyanide exporter, are received by his stateside partner, LFS and in the hobbyist tank a further 50% die.
Most of those that survive in the hobbyist tanks succumb to the poison with a few months and die for know apparent reason.

In papers that I published in 1986 (First Asian Fisheries Forum, and 1991 (Toxicity Workshop held in Vancouver in 1990) I stated that 50% of the fish die from acute mortality due to exposure to cyanide on the reef and that 30% (on average) die at each step of the chain from the village level, to export, import, and retail levels (e.g., of those that survived from the previous level, 30% die say at the import level).

Alright, lets put this apples to apples here... - The doc says 50% on the reef and 30% at every level from village to retail, Wayne says 75% on the reef and 50% at every level from village to retail.. - Effecting a Wayne-inserted BS-rate of over 20% at every level just like I said! - Imagine that! 8O

<sigh>

Of course, you DO realize that you invite much of the "abuse" you receive ... don't you Wayne?

And you know what this makes you too don't you?? :wink: - (Hint: I milzed it earlier purely for the benefit of the RDO mods..)

Oh hell, I'll probably have to spell it out for you anyway... :roll:
Wayne, you are an attention whore.
[picture removed]

 

[JennM]

I hereby declare Wayne, the Great Panjandrum.

(Look it up...)

I've said it before -- and I've ignored my own advice - if we just ignore his rhetoric, perhaps he'll go away. For a long time I opted not to engage him because it's a waste of bandwidth.

I don't think anyone here needs convincing that Wayne knows precious little about the INDUSTRY since he is not a member of same.

It would be like me telling him how to run a real estate transaction. Just because I've bought a house, I should be an expert on all things legal pertaining to sale of property?

Tell ya what, Wayne... you let me write up your next real estate transaction (yours, not your clients' ) and I'll let you tell me how to manage my business... Deal?

I'm sticking to my earlier assessment that Wayne's agenda is infintely more harmful to trade reform, than anything I've seen posted here.

I really makes me question his REAL agenda -- because even the least sensible among us would realize this if we were constantly beaten down with facts.

So what gives, Wayne? What's the REAL reason you peddle your cart here?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Jenn

 

[Anonymous]

'having an agenda' implies also having a means to carry it out

wayne has neither, methinks