Do you still get excited?

[Kalkbreath]

Naesco, can you explain why more fishermen collecting food fish instead of MO fish is a good thing? How bout Jaime

 

[MaryHM]

MaryHM wrote:
Chip, it's easy to understand. None of the "save a reef- ban the MO industry" people in here have a link to the food fish world. That goes on everyday and they don't hear about it, don't have a live food fish tank in their house that they pull fish out of for dinner, don't go to a live food fish resturant, don't hang out with people who share an interest in eating live reef fish, etc... They think that as long as they have no contact with detrimental reef practices, that it isn't occurring. Out of sight, out of mind.

Wrong again Mary.
Those who will be responsible for closure of the MO industry are not the "save a reef people" it is the industry itself by it lack of action on reeform. And you know this to be true.

Where did I say that the "save a reef- ban the MO industry" people will be responsible for the industry's closure? I didn't. I was categorizing a type of person. I understand that you have a need to call me "wrong" in a desperate attempt to try to be right about something, but I would ask that instead of just typing "wrong Mary!" everytime I post, that you actually read the post and try to grasp an understanding of its context.

 

[naesco]

Save a reef-ban an industry person

Mary, the type of person you are categorizing will not be responsible for the closure of the MO industry, it is the industry itself that will be responsible by it lack of action on reeform.

And, you know this to be true.

 

[MaryHM]

Again, where did I say they were responsible for anything? NO WHERE. Let me try to spell it out even more remedially for you:

I am categorizing a type of person. A person who thinks that if the MO trade were to vanish tomorrow the reefs would be saved. This person doesn't have to have any involvement in reform or any involvement in trying to shut the trade down. They just have to have a mindset. A mindset that thinks legislation that will ban the MO trade will have a positive impact on the reefs. IT IS A MINDSET, NOT AN ACTION.

 

[naesco]

Again, where did I say they were responsible for anything? NO WHERE. Let me try to spell it out even more remedially for you:

I am categorizing a type of person. A person who thinks that if the MO trade were to vanish tomorrow the reefs would be saved. This person doesn't have to have any involvement in reform or any involvement in trying to shut the trade down. They just have to have a mindset. A mindset that thinks legislation that will ban the MO trade will have a positive impact on the reefs. IT IS A MINDSET, NOT AN ACTION.

:roll:

 

[Jaime Baquero]

Jaime,

The reason I asked you for a timeline is because you yourself stated that this bill would force the industry to do something. That's all I was focusing on- if the bill became law how long would it take for the forced industry to complete its task? Your answer: 3-5 years. I'd say 5 years is a fairly realistic timeline for cleaning up SOME of the major issues. Of course, MAC has been trying to get a CDT together for how long and that hasn't even happened. And that's something that's not under another country's governmental control. My point is this. If the bill becomes law and industry is forced to finally do something, how is industry going to afford to do it? This bill would effectively shut down the industry. If that happens, I highly doubt the people whose businesses are closed are going to put out money for the next 3-5 years in hopes that something will happen to get it running again. I agree that something should have been done already. But I don't agree that this bill would force industry to change it's ways. As is, it would just close the industry. And closing the industry would not put us any closer to getting healthy reefs than we were before.

No doubt that honest people who really care, as yourself, will suffer the consequences of legislation, this, because the lack of action of the majority of stakeholders that form this industry.

This industry has been ripping off the coral reefs and exploiting the fisherfolks of the Philippines and Indonesia for over two decades now. If this bill doesn't change the industry's ways... radical groups will do.

The status quo is not an option. This trade-cide must be stopped.

 

[Jaime Baquero]

And closing the industry would not put us any closer to getting healthy reefs than we were before.

If so many divers depend on the industry to feed their families, why wouldn't they just switch over to the food industry since it's the same skills used? Why would this bill make an impact on the reefs if OUR industry is shut down? There's another, much larger industry out there that does the SAME thing, right?

I don't get it.

Peace,

Chip

To begin with... let's fix one, the one you are directly involved, the one that has been ripping off the coral reefs and exploiting the fisherfolks for decades, and then, together we will put pressure to work on the other one.

The status quo can not be an option for people who really care about coral reefs. There are many thing in this trade that are wrong .

 

[Anonymous]

And closing the industry would not put us any closer to getting healthy reefs than we were before.

If so many divers depend on the industry to feed their families, why wouldn't they just switch over to the food industry since it's the same skills used? Why would this bill make an impact on the reefs if OUR industry is shut down? There's another, much larger industry out there that does the SAME thing, right?

I don't get it.

Peace,

Chip

To begin with... let's fix one, the one you are directly involved, the one that has been ripping off the coral reefs and exploiting the fisherfolks for decades, and then, together we will put pressure to work on the other one.

The status quo can not be an option for people who really care about coral reefs. There are many thing in this trade that are wrong .

how will shutting down the u.s. trade stop any of the exploitation ?

radical measures and politics never solved, nor will solve, anything, in any 'arena'

 

[Kalkbreath]

There was a documenary a few years back in which a return visit to children that had once worked in the overseas" sweat shops". You know the factories making USA products using child labor and closed down by Americans with good intentions ..........The vast majority of the children were now working in the sex tourism trade or not at all and seaching for food! Hardly the improvement child welfare reformers preached ........How can some one with a straight face preach that its better to alow more harm to come to the reefs in order to teach the hobby/ industry a lesson..........then to keep the reefs from the greater threats of food industry by continuing to support the Pet fish industry? Do you know what the reply from the former child sweat shop employees was about how they felt about having their old jobs taken away from them ? Its the very same reply the reefs would say if givin the choice between being raped by the seafood industry .................or stessed by the pet fish collectors........There are two kinds of sweat shops ...........and there are two kinds of fish collectors :wink:

 

[clarionreef]

The trade off will be for every kilo of tropicals not caught, 100 kilos of food fish will be.
Lest anyone think that food fish are not also tropicals...be advised that so many of them are the same species. 1 1/2 foot naso tangs, 3 pound sweetlips, triggers, louti/miniatus /panther groupers, parrotfishes, large wrasses and where the fisherman are more desperate...angelfishes, smaller wrasses, smaller triggers, butterflies,any tang, foxfaces and rabbitfishes.
Tropicals are worth so much more money and early in their lives long before they cost much to the environment.
The plunder of predators for pennies is a serious trade off when compared to the much greater value of young fish.
All the tropical collectors will kill , kill , kill kilo after kilo of reef fish the week they lose their jobs.
This is certain.
Steve

 

[clarionreef]

...all the collectors will kill, kill, kill kilos after kilo of fishes the week they lose their jobs.
ANYONE WHO PRETENDS TO CARE MUST ADRESS THIS.
The fisherman will not become land developers, service guys, truck drivers, basket weavers or kayak guides :lol:
They will fish and they will have a heavier hand on the reefs as the food fish are to die hard anyway.
Steve