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clarionreef

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Once again it appears that a reform cycle is coming...back, like El Nino.
The Case bill will focus attention on problems and issues and miss the remedy part by a mile.
I have rarely downplayed the case for reform except when they blather on about dynamite, dreging etc.
As the primary whistle-blower in the first place I ALWAYS FELT A RESPONSIBILITY TO PRESENT SOLUTIONS.
The solutions are 90% of the problem as the current notion of saving reefs thru better bookkeeping are not viable, not acceptable and DOA from the git-go.
Aquarium professionals are kept out of the loop to insure fealty and loyalty to the cause and this resultant lack of talent leads MAC types to bring the proverbial knife to the gunfight.
We who do this for a living can tell when their plan is doomed before the ink dries as a hunter can tell if the dog can hunt or not.
SOLUTIONS are what commercial collectors work at every day ...all day. Only in the most dis-connected circles of out of touch people are the remedies of collecting, decompressing, handling and packing fish considered a problem so complicated and difficult that only millions of dollars could solve it.
To train 1,000 cyanide users...youd only need 100 bucks a head....
That includes salaries, transportation, gear, nettings, food and some materials.
MAC could not do this for a thousand a head or even ten thousand a head as they have proven thru the years but real commercial types can do this easily.
Then, with that done and the fisherman on your side....you could move to the next steps.
[i]However....if you can't change the fisherman, everything else on the agenda is meaningless as the impact on the reefs we say we want to save is off the coast from their villages.[/i] They are the centerpiece and the anchor for it all. Fix it up with them, and the rest falls into place.
Steve
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naesco

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Dr. Rubec thanks for your update.

I hate to be negative but with the present US administration I do not think anything will happen.

Having said that four more years in now almost three and God grant a new leader will surface in the Democratics that will take the leadership necessary to end industrys wrongs.
 
A

Anonymous

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Well thank god the bottom trawling reef bombing MO collectors won't be regulated then :D I mean, they're people too.
 

clarionreef

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That dynamite, trawling and dredging stuffs incredible :!: :lol:
I mean it defines them as total pretenders to the "I care more then you club...." and proves their lack of understanding of all but cheap eco-soundbites...written by someone else.
Such shallow understanding of the issue certainly disqualifies them as useful problem solvers and should deny them a seat at the same table as the people who are genuinely concerned.
Steve
 

Kalkbreath

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naesco":2a6g9oky said:
Dr. Rubec thanks for your update.

I hate to be negative but with the present US administration I do not think anything will happen.

Having said that four more years in now almost three and God grant a new leader will surface in the Democratics that will take the leadership necessary to end industrys wrongs.
You do realize that if Canada had the U.S. version of the Endangered species act , The spotted owl would shut down most of Canada's Timber industry, the Baby seal crowd would have to go back to beating their wives instead and the Snail darters would cripple your inland fishing, your dam based electric plants and leave your country with little to export other then misguided intentions.
 

naesco

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oh you forgot the largest oil reserve in the world in the Alberta tar sands, billions and billions of export natural gas and the largest freshwater reserve in the world to produce enviromentally friendly hydro electric power.
Even though its the South it would be mighty unconfortable in the the cold dark.

Just a friendly reminder from your blue-eyed arabs to the North. :)
 
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Anonymous

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naesco":1vlnpir6 said:
Dr. Rubec thanks for your update.

I hate to be negative but with the present US administration I do not think anything will happen.

Having said that four more years in now almost three and God grant a new leader will surface in the Democratics that will take the leadership necessary to end industrys wrongs.

Wayne,

When you become a citizen of the United States of America, then and only then do you have the right to ***** about our President. But until then, please keep your polictical comments confined to the SUMP where it belongs. Our current administration is NOT responcible for the decline on the reefs.

The truth of the matter is that this country can not (dispite what our government thinks) tell other countrys how to run their own country. If it could, China, Iran, Iraq and several other countrys wouldn't make into the world news.
 
A

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Kalkbreath":343pb1p9 said:
naesco":343pb1p9 said:
Dr. Rubec thanks for your update.

I hate to be negative but with the present US administration I do not think anything will happen.

Having said that four more years in now almost three and God grant a new leader will surface in the Democratics that will take the leadership necessary to end industrys wrongs.
You do realize that if Canada had the U.S. version of the Endangered species act , The spotted owl would shut down most of Canada's Timber industry, the Baby seal crowd would have to go back to beating their wives instead and the Snail darters would cripple your inland fishing, your dam based electric plants and leave your country with little to export other then misguided intentions.

lol misguided intentions are all we seem to get now, anyway :lol:
 

dizzy

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I haven't seen a PJAC Alert come through about this bill. I guess they don't consider it to be much of a problem. 8O There doesn't appear to be any organized opposition to the bill. I see no reason for it not to pass.
Mitch
 

PeterIMA

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Mitch,
While there may not appear to be any opposition the Case draft bill, I don't think that is the case (pun). The fact that there are no co-sponors with Congressman Case indicates to me that it is dead in the water (as Naesco pointed out). The lack of apparent opposition from the trade probably comes from that recognition.

I personally would like to see the bill amended somewhat before it was reviewed by the US Congress and (hopefully) passed into law.

Peter Rubec
 

dizzy

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Does a bill have to have a co-sponsor to get passed? If it doesn't have a chance what is his purpose for reintroducing it? Who is coaching him? I don't get it.
Mitch
 

clarionreef

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I personally would like to see the bill amended somewhat before it was reviewed by the US Congress and (hopefully) passed into law.
:roll: :roll: :roll:
Peter, What do you mean?

The bill forces exports thru the monopoly of a certification business.
As we have seen, the business of peddling certifications appeals mostly to the guiltiest and the ones most in need of buying environmental credentials...ie the whitewash syndrome.
Rich, guilty players are what interests MAC the most. Not poorer cleaner ones. In fact, clean entities will be left out of it as punishment for not joining.
Eco-biz folks push this as its their job to do it yet still do not understand how much villifying the netcaught people for not lending sanction to them has hurt them.
If they were legit in practice, they would be embraced! And real netcaught people would be their greatest cheerleaders.
Falling for written, untested theory is a huge blindside with egg heads and non involved players.
If the stuff on paper were loan applications you guys would approve every one of them! You actually believe all that is written neatly and ignore truth that is not!
The Case bill would be so far from attaining its stated goals as to be laughable. It was not proofread and edited by anyone who actually understands this stuff and was inspired by Packard folks to help shore up their failures and force compliance of ill advised notions.
The issue deserves a far better bill.
Steve
 

clarionreef

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CF,
You do imagine things to be rather simple....black and white and easy?
Why not counter his bill? Why not counter his bill did you say?
Do you imagine that he even wrote it?
Serious funders, sponsors and cohorts did....and larded it with millions and millions. Hes just the vehicle.
Get me elected to Congress however, and I will!
Easier still,
Get me elected to run a serious pro aquarium fisherman budget and I will.
If its converting fisherman we're after, its cheaper and easier then you're led to believe.
If its a huge pork-barrel white elephant with lots of money for white folks...that we want, that is already going on.
You know any philanthropists that want to see how much bang we could get for 1/10th the money and 10X the results?
[Early completion...production bonuses included.]
Steve
PS.
And AMDA is a dealers volunteer org...whilst MAC is a funder created multi million dollar enterprise.
 

coralfarmin

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Actualy, Steve

Ya, I am probably what most would call "simple folk" or "simple minded".
In my opinion, you and Mark and Mike all working together would be best for the industry, the hobby and the reefs.
I do not understand, what gos on behind the closed curtains ?

Only on the reefs.v :wink:

You should help control the purse strings, if its part of my tax dollars we are talking about, imo

IMO, a good strategy for training PI divers is to target younger divers with less family responsability, ie (kids), hire them on kinda as ,indentured servants for 2 weeks (bad example), with their aquisition of the netting, contacts,etc needed as part of the contract, and incentive to stay on camp.They would require less compensation, and have more initiative than old divers trying to learn new tricks,imo.
While teaching them about resource conservation at the same time.Petty bickering yields no results.

Far as need of a boat, sites, etc....something I'd have to live to figure out.

oh well, I wish I could get behind them curtains myself :cry:
 

coralfarmin

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But I really still dont get the problem....Is it not enough certified caught fish(Trained Collectors) :?

Or as Peter is makin it sound in Knowes thread, over collection of easy to get to spots....without a boat..plus increasing fuel costs(shipping) exporting, which everyone absorbs down to the enduser :?
 

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