Another attack on Tyree!

[Unarce]

I just read through a thread on another board, where Steve had his name dragged through the mud again because of his Limited Editions. My view of the accusers, is basically ignorance.

Don't get me wrong. I respect the opinions and choices others have on how they approach purchasing livestock. Some people would rather buy Charmin. Some don't mind scratching their arse with the cheap stuff.

I just don't see how Steve is ripping off anyone. He goes out and searches for, what many consider, exceptionally attractive pieces, and than cultures them in his own facility. Albeit, you're paying more than you'd normally pay for a wild or aquacultured frag at a LFS, but again, it's a tank cultured specimen, that a lot of times, has a history.

He doesn't point a gun to anyone's head to buy the stuff.

What I find ironic, was that the thread was in an LPS forum. I'd have stronger feelings about getting scammed by the Acan Craze. Not that I bought any :wink:

 

[goslugsgo]

Can you post the link? I would be very interested to know why they believe he should sell his product for less than the market will bear.

 

[Unarce]

Here you go!

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showt ... did=843860

 

[jusreefin]

I read that thread when It first opened. I have had expierences with that mummra joker and none of them are pleasant. He talks this and that about how he can get all these LE type corals for dirt cheap but doesn't bother to mention he is a MGR. for a local fish store so he has first choice and probably gets wholesale prices.

Don't worry about it Karl, there will always be haters out there! I am a firm beleiver in spending your hard earned money on something you enjoy! If I want that $150 fishing reel I'm going to buy it even if someone else says I'm stupid for spending that much dough for it!

 

[Unarce]

A manager of a LFS, huh. If he can get it cheaper, more power to him. The slandering is unwarranted, though. Is what Steve does any worse than when a retailer buys a $40 wild or aquacultured colony, frags it into several pieces, and sells each frag for $25. I'm not saying his store does that, but you and I both know that's a common and accepted sale strategy in the hobby.

 

[jusreefin]

Like I said Don't sweat it! These type of people are not trying to help the hobby they are just bashing anyone they don't agree with. Like has been said several thousand times, no body is putting a GUN to anyones head and forcing them to buy!

On a side note Do you talk to Rob ( ozmonster) at all? He has fallen off the map!

 

[Unarce]

Nada! Last I heard, he had some tank problems when things got crazy at work. I think he got engaged, too, so he may even be married now.

 

[jusreefin]

Married life must have gotten to him LOL HAHAHA

 

[Anonymous]

Well, not having read the whole thread there might be a little more to it that the over all "hatred" that is going on. Do a certain degree I have to agree with some of what is said (I only read a couple pages though). What Tyree does is good work, he tries to get good corals and make sure they stay alive by aquaculture no more different than anyone else in Tonga, Fiji, California or whatever, bravo for that. Tyree simply only gets "the good stuff" for his aquaculture which is why they give the name Tyree associated with it, limited edition though... not sure where that's from if that's him or what, definately sounds more along the lines of marketing hype though, whether it was him or someone else who gave that "title" I don't know.

Problems with this though as ANYONE who has kept corals know that corals can and very well do change colors drastically depending upon lighting conditions, water conditions, feeding regimine, amongst other things. So you're uber bright Tyree LE pink Acropora Whatever might not stay that same pink color in your tank, and do you have any right to continue to call it a LE if you try to sell a frag? Many brown corals have turned out for the better as well, so that gem might be hiding out there in some tank unbeknown to the owner but does he not get to call it a LE? A montipora danae is the same as any other montipora danae as far the structure of what it is, the color that it happens to take is what turns $5 to $500.

What Tyree does is puts his stamp on things, and nothing can be said wrong for that it's a way to know where it comes from (atleast at an intermediate step), I think it's people who start becoming brokers and middle men for these corals which really start to hurt the naming process, and that's probably what people are going after the most. Now some might say well Tyree is one of those middle men, and something can be said for that too.

I think the LE title is nothing more than saying this is not a common coral, but it's a fancy way to say it. Many online sites that sell corals do that, it's called advertising and it gets done to sell corals not to really be descriptive of what the coral is. Look at a place like reefermadness you'll not find a single color (or two) as a description of the corals, ie one part blue zoathus with green skirts.. you instead get "Terrific Tropical Ocean Blue and Turquoise with Krypton Green Skirts Zoanthus sp."

I personally love the guy, I just couldn't afford a fraction of what others sell his stuff for. Tyree $500 Efflo? Pfffbt, that bastard better be made of solid gold. Of course I will only blame Tyree if he put the $500 price tag on it (either sold as that, or named). PS. I use Kirkland brand from Costco, I can get 48 rolls for under $10

 

[Len]

I think some of the animosity directed towards Steve is due to some folks who simply can't afford the coveted stuff he sells (ie, some degree of "sour grapes). But IMHO, there is just reason for people's frustration with the direction livestock prices have taken in the past 2-3 years. While Steve has spurred interest in coral collection (arguably a good thing, also arguably a bad thing), he is also responsible for driving up prices to obscene levels. Four years ago, people would've mocked anyone who spent $300 on a coral, let alone a 2 polyp frag. Nowadays, only the rich (in time or resource) can afford the very nice stuff unless they get lucky.

I really don't know what to make of it. I can understand why some people detest what he's contributed to our hobby. But then again, it's simple supply and demand (mostly grossly hyped demand, but still ....).

 

[Anonymous]

Len wrote:

it's simple supply and demand

That's it.

Why does Tyree have a waiting list booked through 2011 for his Bali Tri-Color coral? Supply and demand. His price of $65 for that frag isn't unreasonable either.

The corals that go for the big bucks are usually sold at Auction on eBay. How can anyone blame Tyree if someone is willing to layout $400 or $500 for one of corals? It's not his fault. Supply and demand again.

There are plenty of cheaper frags available for anyone that wants an exotic reef without spending the big bucks. Spending the big bucks is for the collectors with higher disposable income. There's no reason to hate them either.

Louey

 

[Unarce]

I don't feel it can be based on spending power. If you're in this hobby, you're accustomed to spending a lot and frequently, no matter how many corners you cut.

There are millionaires that still drive beat up cars and shop at WalMart. There are high school dropouts that live with their parents, yet parade around in an Escalade and platinum chains. It's a choice. It's their choice.

 

[Anonymous]

Why does Tyree have a waiting list booked through 2011 for his Bali Tri-Color coral? Supply and demand. His price of $65 for that frag isn't unreasonable either.

Yeah, its not that unreasonable, the part that gets me is when someone else has a similar colored coral of the same species and everyone who's (no offense peeps) a coral snob will jump all over them and rip them a new one saying its not a TRUE Bali Tri-Color or whatever, just look what has happened with similar superman montis, Leng Sy cap, amongst others. These usually by those who own the coral such that their "investment" doesn't lose value, what if some unknown stash of Efflos came in from someplace by the crateloads that looked identical to the $500 Efflo? Acan fad going down the drain again, only this time there will be a huge fight over who has a "true" one, with acans no one bothered to really name them so they were more easily pushed aside "You don't really have a red and green striped acan lord!" "Oh yah? Its red... and has green stripes" just doesn't have the same ring as "My frag can directly from Joe who got his from Bob who got it from Steve Kanooka's mother colony!"

There really are different classes of coral aficionados, and as Louey said some are willing to fork over big bucks on them, regardless of this hobby how many people will really fork over $300+ on a 1" square of anything? It really has opened up the way for more corals to become pricy too, 5 years ago there weren't half as many places that sold aquacultured frags with names like Rare or Exotic in their companies name. Its supply and demand, it's just those who know can snatch up all the supply creating the demand. (although that's a topic for another discussion ).

 

[Anonymous]

Karl wrote:

I don't feel it can be based on spending power. If you're in this hobby, you're accustomed to spending a lot and frequently, no matter how many corners you cut.

I disagree. I've known plenty of people who got into this hobby and completely stocked 90 - 125 gallon tanks for $3,000 or so. I don't think any of them would have layed $300 - $400 on a limited edition coral because their budgets wouldn't allow it. For that matter, when I first got into this hobby I wouldn't have spent that kind of money either because I couldn't afford it. My original 75 gallon tank was all I could afford and the most I ever spent on a coral was $95 and I freaked spending that much. I make more now and can spend more (and thus I have quite a few LE's.)

I think a persons spending power has everything to do with how they might view Tyree's frags and all of the other LE's that are out there.

Louey

 

[Anonymous]

Most I spent was $50 on a colony (30+ heads.. guess) of bright red blasto wellsi Recently spent $35 on a Purple Tort frag(Cali I think), but I think that's really the limit to what I want to spend on small frags.

 

[Unarce]

Spending power would be a factor if we were dealing with big ticket items. We're just talking about $100 frags. There are Limited Edition coral keepers at each end of the spectrum.

What doesn't surprise me is that the person that Rob (jusreefin) was referring to is a retailer in the hobby. Often times, this is where the complaints stem from. Their not concerned about what their paying for corals, they get them at wholesale. Their just mad because they can't slap the same price tag on a 'similar' coral that came directly from the ocean.

 

[goslugsgo]

The guy created a niche market with his name on it. Love him or hate him, that's capitalism and unadulterated genius.
Show me a hater and (IMO) I'll show you a guy that is pissed that he didn't think of growing neat corals, putting his name on them, then raking in the dough first.

 

[jusreefin]

The guy created a niche market with his name on it. Love him or hate him, that's capitalism and unadulterated genius.
Show me a hater and (IMO) I'll show you a guy that is pissed that he didn't think of growing neat corals, putting his name on them, then raking in the dough first.

BINGO!!!

Also when I first started in the hobby the most I spent on a coral was $50 and that was over my budget at that time. Well as my love for the hobby has grown luckily my income has as well and last year I spent $350 on 35+ polyp colony of Acan Lord and cringed about it. I think alot of it does have to do with spending power.

Karl remember that $100 to you is like $300-500 to some hobbiest

 

[Unarce]

It's still a much smaller scale. Just like you'll find the same designer jeans on the ghetto fabulous, all the way up to trust babies. It's reachable.

To say Steve's raking in the dough is a huge stretch. For example, if he's grossing $4K a month on the monthly and bi-monthly Limited Edition releases, how much is he going to have left after the rent and maintenance of his warehouse in Orange County?

The guy has a passion for corals.

 

[jusreefin]

Anyone that has seen where Steve Works/Lives knows Damn well he is not making a killin!