Clarion (etc..) Smuggler final word?
- Thread starter IslandDiver
- Start date
Marc,
Thanks for the benefit of the doubt. The truth is, that Clarons are not illegal to collect and ship from Mexico. They are only illegal if they come from a protected area.
There have been Clarions trickling in over the years that are found in legal areas, but then again, it's really about the permit. If a permit was issued, then only the collecting area would be the problem.
The bluespot jaws I found out were being imported legally, even when nobody else was getting them. Only one supplier had a permit....I found this out through Fish and Wildlfe.
Anyway, thinking back, I did wonder if they were legal or not, but with all the hooplah and buzz that they were coming, I found it hard to believe that Craig would take such a risk. You should also know that I was the last to receive Clarions and I ended up getting the left-overs after Craig has already sold what he could. I was not really told too much before hand as I was not one of the company's that was pre-sold or given much advance notice. Only many emails from my international customers asking me about them because they had heard the fish were coming and like I had said over the years.....it's true when we seem them!
Best regards
Eric
Thanks for the benefit of the doubt. The truth is, that Clarons are not illegal to collect and ship from Mexico. They are only illegal if they come from a protected area.
There have been Clarions trickling in over the years that are found in legal areas, but then again, it's really about the permit. If a permit was issued, then only the collecting area would be the problem.
The bluespot jaws I found out were being imported legally, even when nobody else was getting them. Only one supplier had a permit....I found this out through Fish and Wildlfe.
Anyway, thinking back, I did wonder if they were legal or not, but with all the hooplah and buzz that they were coming, I found it hard to believe that Craig would take such a risk. You should also know that I was the last to receive Clarions and I ended up getting the left-overs after Craig has already sold what he could. I was not really told too much before hand as I was not one of the company's that was pre-sold or given much advance notice. Only many emails from my international customers asking me about them because they had heard the fish were coming and like I had said over the years.....it's true when we seem them!
Best regards
Eric
My understanding from the permits we have imported directly, is that each specie of fish and invert is on the permit and the qty's listed. Those totals all come from a quota that is issued when the permits are released to the exporters.
So every item exported is listed by common name (in spanish) and also the scientific name.
Have a great weekend....and happy Fathers day to all those Daddio's out there!
Eric
So every item exported is listed by common name (in spanish) and also the scientific name.
Have a great weekend....and happy Fathers day to all those Daddio's out there!
Eric
Well, your undestanding is wrong, er, what was that said to me earlier, "your ignorant"? :lol:
Aren't you supposed to be the MAC/Reef Check/MAMTI poster child? Why in heaven would you deal with a sketchy subject like clarions anyways? your supposed to be the one that does it right!!!! If you were ignorant to the fact they were smuggled, then why in heaven should any group elect you as a leader (AMDA)? Oh wait, that does kinda make you a politician :lol: You called me ignorant, yet, you after how many years of importing from the Herrera brothers, your ignorant to how the system works in Mexico? What, Ivan never told you how it works? Steve never told you in any of the times you've spoken with him on the phone? 2 words come to mind, one is an animal, the other is what happens to food after being processed thru that animal and it comes out the working end.
There is a general quota type permit, you have to get "special" permits to add clarions, blue spot jaws, passers and cortez's on to it.
You playing ignorant is simply acting. Your a far smarter person then your letting on in print. I understand, your just doing what your lawyers told you to do. Others have said, "I don't recall" or "I didn't inhale". You say, "I didn't know they were smuggled".
Aren't you supposed to be the MAC/Reef Check/MAMTI poster child? Why in heaven would you deal with a sketchy subject like clarions anyways? your supposed to be the one that does it right!!!! If you were ignorant to the fact they were smuggled, then why in heaven should any group elect you as a leader (AMDA)? Oh wait, that does kinda make you a politician :lol: You called me ignorant, yet, you after how many years of importing from the Herrera brothers, your ignorant to how the system works in Mexico? What, Ivan never told you how it works? Steve never told you in any of the times you've spoken with him on the phone? 2 words come to mind, one is an animal, the other is what happens to food after being processed thru that animal and it comes out the working end.
There is a general quota type permit, you have to get "special" permits to add clarions, blue spot jaws, passers and cortez's on to it.
You playing ignorant is simply acting. Your a far smarter person then your letting on in print. I understand, your just doing what your lawyers told you to do. Others have said, "I don't recall" or "I didn't inhale". You say, "I didn't know they were smuggled".
Gresham,
Take it easy buddy....this is supposed to be fun remember?
I never said you were ignorant....only that your statement was. Either way, we did do it right.....and so did everyone else except for the guy who actually bs'd his paperwork on the shipment of fish, and now he is paying the price.
You say I am acting, but I guess there is really no way I could convince you otherwise, so let's just drop it unless you have some other motives to be challenging me.
I definately think you have a different version of how Mexico works. Special permits for passers, cortez, bluespots??????? I didn't know anything about that and have always received those on the same paperwork as the norm......I have imported dozens of shipments over the years, and not Steve or Ivan have ever told me anything different than my own experiences....so because you had not been directly involved in our business, then let's just say we are splitting hairs here and it has nothing to do with the fact that the real injustice here were the falsified documents by the importer and that the fish probably came from a protected area.
I am sure Steve could comment on his opinion of the area being protected and how easily these fish could be harvested sustainably. I have heard they are very abundant.
Anyway, I don't think there is much more to ad to this thread unless anyone out there is really interested in the facts of what happened. I would be happy to share what I know.
Best regards
Eric
Take it easy buddy....this is supposed to be fun remember?
I never said you were ignorant....only that your statement was. Either way, we did do it right.....and so did everyone else except for the guy who actually bs'd his paperwork on the shipment of fish, and now he is paying the price.
You say I am acting, but I guess there is really no way I could convince you otherwise, so let's just drop it unless you have some other motives to be challenging me.
I definately think you have a different version of how Mexico works. Special permits for passers, cortez, bluespots??????? I didn't know anything about that and have always received those on the same paperwork as the norm......I have imported dozens of shipments over the years, and not Steve or Ivan have ever told me anything different than my own experiences....so because you had not been directly involved in our business, then let's just say we are splitting hairs here and it has nothing to do with the fact that the real injustice here were the falsified documents by the importer and that the fish probably came from a protected area.
I am sure Steve could comment on his opinion of the area being protected and how easily these fish could be harvested sustainably. I have heard they are very abundant.
Anyway, I don't think there is much more to ad to this thread unless anyone out there is really interested in the facts of what happened. I would be happy to share what I know.
Best regards
Eric
Daniel,
Craig had been doing legal business with us and many for years prior to this incident. Do you think anyone would have guessed he was smuggling immigrants? That was a shocker!
It's true that Craig had a shady past, but he was doing legal business for years, and with all the proper permits. It just didn't make sense that he would take this kind of risk at his stage of his life after learning the hard lessons he had.....but that turned out to be very untrue........live and learn and his case.....he's still learning the hard way. I guess we all learned something from this too...that's for sure!
Eric
Craig had been doing legal business with us and many for years prior to this incident. Do you think anyone would have guessed he was smuggling immigrants? That was a shocker!
It's true that Craig had a shady past, but he was doing legal business for years, and with all the proper permits. It just didn't make sense that he would take this kind of risk at his stage of his life after learning the hard lessons he had.....but that turned out to be very untrue........live and learn and his case.....he's still learning the hard way. I guess we all learned something from this too...that's for sure!
Eric
Eric,
How about making a statement about the implications that you allowed someone in SDC to photograph livestock after hours, in an effort to help them set up an internet site to compete against the brick and mortars you sell to. Is Marc falsely accusing you? If you are seriously planning a run as AMDA President you need to give us your side of this.
Thanks,
Mitch
How about making a statement about the implications that you allowed someone in SDC to photograph livestock after hours, in an effort to help them set up an internet site to compete against the brick and mortars you sell to. Is Marc falsely accusing you? If you are seriously planning a run as AMDA President you need to give us your side of this.
Thanks,
Mitch
sdcfish":iwq6jurc said:
Fair enough Eric. I have no outside agenda, or motivation. I just found it extremelly odd what you were saying. But your 100% right, and I do apologize in for the tone of how I asked the questions and the tone in my repsonses.
You, as an importer, don't see the "special" permit. It's not an attachment or anything, it's something the apply for down there. It's kinda like a salmon stamp on your CAF&G fishing licence. As for them beign sustainable, yup, MAJOR transects proving that one
Mitch,
We have allowed photos to be taken by both etailers and retailers. All we ask is that we are also allowed to use the photos and we don't charge people for taking pictures. We have never done this "after hours" except in one case when it was an x-employee setting up a combo retailer/etailer.
We don't discriminate between a mail order company or a retailer as they are both selling to the same customer level, but we do have a more restrictive policy on minimum orders for etailers and we are more strict on our minimum order policys.
I feel we have been very fair to the retailer stores and have never given a mail order company an advantage over them like others have and how the dry good manufactures have sold out to them. It does not only hurt the retailers, but also the wholesalers like us who have to find ways to help the retailers stay competitive.
So basically, my position is not one totally against a mail order company. I do think that it's important that we find ways to help the retailers compete against the etailer as I had pointed out in a previous message I had written to everyone. This is an important subject that I really think Amda needs to address and find solutions to provide the members that count on this org for guidance.
Best regards,
Eric
We have allowed photos to be taken by both etailers and retailers. All we ask is that we are also allowed to use the photos and we don't charge people for taking pictures. We have never done this "after hours" except in one case when it was an x-employee setting up a combo retailer/etailer.
We don't discriminate between a mail order company or a retailer as they are both selling to the same customer level, but we do have a more restrictive policy on minimum orders for etailers and we are more strict on our minimum order policys.
I feel we have been very fair to the retailer stores and have never given a mail order company an advantage over them like others have and how the dry good manufactures have sold out to them. It does not only hurt the retailers, but also the wholesalers like us who have to find ways to help the retailers stay competitive.
So basically, my position is not one totally against a mail order company. I do think that it's important that we find ways to help the retailers compete against the etailer as I had pointed out in a previous message I had written to everyone. This is an important subject that I really think Amda needs to address and find solutions to provide the members that count on this org for guidance.
Best regards,
Eric
Unless Craig Lightner is an x-employee of SDC, then you have let more than one person in "after hours" to take pictures to use in an internet based mail order operation. Unless you don't consider a Sunday night around 8pm as "after hours".
No, what was a shocker was that he was originally arrested on a probation violation due to a previous case. The case being that he made terrorist threats aginst a US Military facility.
My basic point is this...you have known Craig for what 15, 20, maybe more years. Isn't someone in your family married to his cousin. You are in a position to know about his criminal activities going way back to when he was run out of Florida and Honduras. I just find it very hard to believe that you would trust him "this time". When this first came up you stated that you knew absolutely nothing about them possibly being imported illegally...now it's "Anyway, thinking back, I did wonder if they were legal or not".
Gresham,
I really dont know the first thing about this case but I do assume that this was FEDERAL court given the nature of the offenses that were charged.
As such, the entire transcript should be available through the "right to know" act. I am not saying that it would be easy to get but if you knock on the right door and ask the right questions it would be unlawful for you to not receive the transcript.
I really dont know the first thing about this case but I do assume that this was FEDERAL court given the nature of the offenses that were charged.
As such, the entire transcript should be available through the "right to know" act. I am not saying that it would be easy to get but if you knock on the right door and ask the right questions it would be unlawful for you to not receive the transcript.
GreshamH":3duby7ik said:
I have no problem at all posting here Gresham. If you read my PM's you will see that what I DO have a problem with is being bated into a personal feud by your nasty, snide personal insults on this public forum. As is the case with so many threads, people like you seem more interested in personal attacks rather than intelligent discourse. I have no use or time for that!!!!! I believe that your intercourse on this very thread with Eric supports my observations.
Hey there Rob. Sorry you felt dragged into this. Please accept my apologies on behalf of the forum and Gresham. He's just passionate about the hobby as we all are.
It's tough when the facts and answers aren't directly in front of everyone so they can make their own mind up on what happened.
Is there anything you'd like to add?
Peace,
Chip
It's tough when the facts and answers aren't directly in front of everyone so they can make their own mind up on what happened.
Is there anything you'd like to add?
Peace,
Chip
Well there was a bit of an inside story that goes something like this: One of the LA wholesalers heard about the clarions and threatened to blow the whistle on this little scheme if he didn't some of them too. Well he did get some of them and then he got caught up in the investigation as well. Now I guess he would like to play the role of victim. I have no way of knowing if the story is true or not, but it came from a damn good source. It's a little like the guy at the pawn shop receiving stolen property. Plausible deniability or not, this sort of thing, along with the leopard shark thing, gives the industry a black eye and I wish you guys would quit taking such stupid risks. Your're the ones making all the damn money anyway and there is no need to be so frigging greedy.
There are many things I'd like to say about this subject especially considering that I was working for SDC, and had full access to incoming stocklists and invoices, at the time. My opinion on this subject was voiced to the "helm" at the time but was ignored.
However, I don't need any new threats of lawsuits from Eric and, even though I'd be telling the truth, it would only be my word against Eric's anyway.
What Eric doesn't understand, however, is that I have the utmost respect for SDC. There are many fine people who work at, and are financial interest holders in, SDC and the company has great potential. However, there are certain ethics not followed by one individual at the helm that continue to bother me and why I still, to this day, refuse to do business with SDC. But, Eric has convinced himself that I have a personal grudge against them which is simply not the case.
Marc Daniels brings up some good points and I'm glad he did.
However, I don't need any new threats of lawsuits from Eric and, even though I'd be telling the truth, it would only be my word against Eric's anyway.
What Eric doesn't understand, however, is that I have the utmost respect for SDC. There are many fine people who work at, and are financial interest holders in, SDC and the company has great potential. However, there are certain ethics not followed by one individual at the helm that continue to bother me and why I still, to this day, refuse to do business with SDC. But, Eric has convinced himself that I have a personal grudge against them which is simply not the case.
Marc Daniels brings up some good points and I'm glad he did.
Exactly Mitch. The leopard shark incident that had happened a few months earlier has quite a few "familiar" names wrapped up in it as well.dizzy":3k1w63ek said:
And that's all I'm gonna say about that.
It all boils down to greed, you should see what happens with corals arriving in LAX let alone these silly leopard sharks or Clarions coming up from MX with illegal chicas and weed.
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