If you believe in your livestock, why not guarantee it ?

[Race]

Just curious! My turn to ask some questions.

Is it economics, the fear of the unknown, unsure of your supply quality, fear of change, do not trust your customers, no confidence in your husbandry or just plain lack of concern ? If none of the above, what is it please?

I answered questions for two days now your turn please.

Race

 

[swsaltwater]

I offer a reasonable guarantee of 3 days fish and 7 days coral. We won't sell a fish with any signs of disease so anything longer IMO just lends itself to irrisponsible reefkeeping. I will listen to people that loose fish after the period to determine if it's the livestock, or their system at fualt and make judgement calls. I am shocked that even after telling new customers how to acclimate, then if the animal dies we learn they did not follow any of our instructions. "I floated the bag for 10 mins", "Why acclimate when you guarantee it", etc, etc, etc. I hear people that buy from you saying they don't bother to acclimate anymore since you will replace it. This is very irrisponsible, in fact I now ask on any returns which is very few and far between "How did you acclimate it", thats how I hear these crazy answers. Etailers need to require a video of the acclimation IMO for people to get credit. Providing a guarantee is only good for business, but doing so without ensuring responsibkle reefkeeping is very bad for the industry.

Wholesalers need to get better at theirs as well. I lost a lot recently from a major wholesaler on 104th and was asked for pics the next day. Most of the small fish had been discarded and the larger ones dried out in the sun. So far only Underwaterworld seems to be making good on DOA's but no wholesaler refunds for DAA's even after you tell em they are really sick right outta the bad but technically alive. I know know to take the pics of the DOA's and won't get caught by that loophole again.

 

[naesco]

IMO most industy types, whether at a lfs or wholesale level, dont give a damn where it was caught or how it was caught. They don't care whether cyanide was used or whether the fisher was fairly paid for his catch. They don't care whether it was properly shipped and held

Their only concern is how much it is going to cost them for the fish so that they can maximize their profits and whether the fish arrives TO THEM alive.

Wayne Ryan

 

[swsaltwater]

I surely care were it is caught, I avoid phillipines stuff if I the wholesalers knows the origin, and I detest anything from Haiti. Anyone who sells recordia or LR from haiti needs to stop and take a look at the destruction down there. A collector in florida said it can be seen in satellite photos as well. Reefs are gone in some areas. The recordia poachers are moving in on florida now it seems.

 

[naesco]

swsaltwater

I am happy you care but in your post you mention those who do not.

The Philippine exporters and stateside wholesalers and those that buy from them.
The Haitian exporters and stateside wholesalers and those that buy from them.

I would assume that this represents at least 100 exporters 100 wholesalers and thousands of stores and online businesses that buy from them.

How do we stop them. How do we put them out of business.

Thank your for your post.

Wayne Ryan

 

[swsaltwater]

There really is not a way to, they go there to get it cheap. The people that buy higher quality or non poached items pay more and therefore have no way to undercut them.

Etailers are a big part of the problem(so are some retailers). I buy recordia from collectors that do it legally. 1/4" of rock per polyp max. Saw a rock the size of a softball for sale at a frag auction, seller said he got it from from a major etailer we all know and love.......It's not 100% on the etailer per say but who he buys from that is collecting it in places they should not be. I don't support those non sustainable practices so I don't buy from those places even though i likely pay more threw my collectors to get less attractive pieces. Maybe etailers can shed light on how and why they have such large recordia pieces for sale when that is a very destructive thing to do. The only large rics I sell are Yumas.

 

[just dave]

Just curious! My turn to ask some questions.

Is it economics, the fear of the unknown, unsure of your supply quality, fear of change, do not trust your customers, no confidence in your husbandry or just plain lack of concern ? If none of the above, what is it please?

I answered questions for two days now your turn please.

Race

We've offered a guarantee since we opened in 1995. It started as a 5-day and quickly became a 7-day guarantee as we thought it sounded better and because of which I can't really answer your questions. I can say that the livestock guarantee has not been burdensome at all. It is a tool. It is used to inspire confidence, to promote a aura of quality, to gain and edge, to increase sales, to imply that we care, etc.

 

[just dave]

I've been thinking about this some more and while I've never felt that our 7-day policy was lacking I've also felt that extending it would cause us no real issues. I first thought about it when you extended yours to 14-days and leap frogged ahead but I felt no real compulsion to change it at that time. I still feel no reason to change it from the perspective of what my customers desire as I've never heard anyone complain it was not long enough but I am a sucker for a challenge and I will pick up the gauntlet you've thrown down. However, I do not know what is so magical about 14 days and I can not bring myself to offer a 14 day guarantee but starting the first of the week we will now offer a new guarantee and it will be 15 days.

Game on.

 

[RasBobre]

I do maintenance and guarantee my livestock for thirty days from acclimation.

Quarantine for a minimum of 14 days and have little casualties in my customers aquariums.

It looks like your not the only one that guarantees and stands behind their livestock around here Race.

 

[Anonymous]

7 to 14 to 30 days! Can I get a 3 month guarantee anyone?

 

[bobimport]

Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 5:08 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I surely care were it is caught, I avoid phillipines stuff if I the wholesalers knows the origin, and I detest anything from Haiti. Anyone who sells recordia or LR from haiti needs to stop and take a look at the destruction down there. A collector in florida said it can be seen in satellite photos as well. Reefs are gone in some areas. The recordia poachers are moving in on florida now it seems.
_________________

What garbage. A collector in Florida told you that? And has he ever even been to Haiti? Would that be the one that chips ricordea off the reef with a hammer? Or squirts quin into the coral? What your "collector in Florida that has never been to Haiti is really saying is "
Damn Bob's got something going in Haiti and I can't get in on it so lets try to close it down". Wonder who your anonymous source for this attack is? Come on tell us how responsible you are only buying "chipped" ricordea. Its still working over the reef with a hammer. Are you against all live rock or just the ones from Haiti? Bet you sell rock. How come the reefs aren't disappearing from where you get your rock. Well if a reef disappears from Haiti its not because someone took ricordea from it more likely it rained up in the hills where someone cut down all the trees to make charcoal to feed his crying kids who eat dirt sometimes to fill their empty bellies. The soil washes down into the reef and coverers it. Anyone who thinks the reef are degraded due to collecting is either clueless or just wants to slam someone business for a cheep advantage. I spend 1 million dollars a year in Haiti. Do you have any idea how many people that feeds? Divers make over $300 a week working per fish. Do you have any idea how many people that can support where the wage is under $10 a day? I have never tried to get it cheaper just better. Better, better, better. Shipping on dead fish costs more than buying cheaper fish. My bags are 25% bigger than the other shippers, I want the fish alive and in good shape. Nope you don't have a clue what you are talking about when it comes to Haiti. as to your collector in the Keys they have been making rules to try to limit the imports from Haiti for years. Why? Cuse they cant get what I got and it drives then nuts. So try to keep your comments to something you have a clue about.
Ever buy a royal gramma from 104 st? Any Caribbean? Well most likely its from Haiti via me. So stop buying Caribbean or you just might be supporting a low life like me.

 

[swsaltwater]

well the source has satellite photos lol. look back a few years and see there was a reef here, now look it's gone.........I prefer mariculture rock from WSI, but i never ever do carribean rock personally hate it, but with all the rock aquaculture sites in florida is there really a reason to bring in Haiti Rock. I can care less if people there eat by raping the reef, I rather protect the reefs.

 

[swsaltwater]

also there is a huge difference in selectively thinning coral and collecting an entire colony or reef. Kinda like slash and burn forest clearing vs selective harvesting.......

 

[bobimport]

"well the source has satellite photos lol. look back a few years and see there was a reef here, now look it's gone.."

AND THAT PROVES WHAT? That collectors did that? Where is the reef you are talking about? Location? The reefs in Haiti are not like the keys. They 800 miles south of the Keys. The reefs in the keys are the northern most in the world thus are marginal at best. The keys are shallow where the reefs of Haiti tend to drop off and are much more massive. To "disappear" a reef you would have to move several million cubic yards of rock or hire David Copperfield. Please let me know the name of your source. Post the photos. Give me the locations on Google earth. Due to the lack of roads in Haiti collecting is very localized. I bet your reef is not even near a town or road. Funny how you can make a statement knowing so little or nothing about Haiti. How can you even make a statement that collectors are responsible for moving a reef? How many miles did they move? How far down did they collect? Did they remove 10 or 50 feet of reef or 6 inches? Give me a break.

 

[grav]

I also offer 30 days on fish for my service customers. The only reason I can do this, is that i can control the water conditions and the livestock choice.

 

[reidi_tim]

nice to see u have that stay alive guarantee on Syngnathidae.... maybe I'll order some, and see how they do, since their guarantee always wanted to do the pipes

 

[Race]

Has anyone else with "a real and long guarantee" found livestock sales remaining strong, despite the economy? I have been pleasantly surprised and am crediting "the 14 day guarantee" for playing a major role in our good sales volume to date in 2008. Wise and safe spending concept for the consumer.

If you are not applying a real and honest guarantee to your livestock, now is the time to reconsider. Drive quality right up the line to improve the industry's livestock choices and handling, at all levels. Great for the hobby and public perception.

Hobbyist, never purchase livestock without a two week guarantee. Spend your money wisely and help improve the hobby by demanding excellence in customer service.

 

[sdcfish]

edited......

 

[naesco]

Dr. Foster
I looked at your fish availability and see you offer Moorish Idol.
I have to say that I was very impressed that you have advised prospective purchasers that they are a expert only fish and the reason why.
My questions are:
If you take a look at your sales volume of Idols as compared to a similarly beautiful fish at a comparable price, does your caveat against keeping them affect the sale of them?

If the sales volume does exceed what you consider to be the 'expert market', would you consider for example, removing the price and printing "By Special Order" and thus avoiding the temptation of newbies to buy this fish?


Have a Happy Easter!

Thank you

Wayne Ryan

 

[Raskal311]

edited......

You made some really good points why edit your post?